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Wahoo Situation to Be Resolved ‘in a Couple of Years’

Looks like Chief Wahoo is on the way out — although not right away. Cleveland Jewish News reported yesterday that Indians owner Paul Dolan addressed a Jewish group in Cleveland about a week ago and discussed the Wahoo situation:

[Dolan said,] “We were on some path towards a middle ground [regarding Wahoo], I don’t know what that path was, and that’s still where we’re headed, but we’re headed there faster than we’ve ever liked because the commissioner of baseball weighed in on this.” Dolan said Manfred had reached out to the franchise about its logo, particularly after a Canadian lawsuit was filed against the team and MLB for using the logo during the playoffs against the Toronto Blue Jays in October. Dolan said he favors a reduced use of Wahoo without eliminating the logo, but he suspects the logo will be resolved one way or the other within a couple of years.

A few thoughts:

•  When Dolan talks about the situation being “resolved one way or the other,” there’s really only one possible outcome there: Wahoo getting the heave-ho. Any other situation would essentially be the status quo and wouldn’t “resolve” anything.

•  Dolan’s mention of Manfred is consistent with reports that emerged in January regarding Wahoo-centric discussions between the two men during the off-season.

•  Shortly after Manfred and Dolan met, Cleveland was named as the site of the 2019 MLB All-Star Game. Given that Manfred has been fairly explicit in stating that he’d like to see Wahoo be mothballed, the All-Star announcement led to widespread speculation that Manfred offered Dolan a deal (or, if you prefer, an ultimatum): “If you want the All-Star Game, get rid of that logo.” I have no idea if that’s true, and I’m generally disinclined toward conspiracy theorizing, but it does fit with Dolan’s newly reported statement that the situation will be resolved “in a couple of years” — like, say, in 2019. Hmmmm.

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Concepts by Angus O’Keefe and Cody Whitmore; click to enlarge

Helmets of the future? With the Braves having recently introduced MLB’s first hydro dipped helmet, I was wondering how things might look if that trend spread to other teams. So I recently enlisted the help of Angus O’Keefe — the guy who recently did that project in which he reimagined all 32 NFL franchises as soccer teams — to create a bunch of MLB helmet concepts. A few of the results are shown above, and there are more in my latest ESPN column, which you can check out here.

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Discount reminder: In case you missed it earlier this week, all Uni Watch membership cardholders are now entitled to a 15% discount on any of the merchandise listed in our Teespring store.

The discount code will be provided to new enrollees when they place their card orders. Existing enrollees can obtain the discount code by contacting me. Once I confirm that you are indeed a card-carrying Uni Watch member, I’ll email the discount code to you. (If you want to include a photo or screen shot of your card, that would be helpful, but it’s not required. I can look you up in my records.)

As always, you can sign up for your own custom-designed membership card here, you can see all the designs we’ve done so far here, and you can see how we produce the cards here.

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Click to enlarge

Henderson update: As I mentioned last Friday, Bill Henderson has released the latest updated edition of his essential MLB jersey guide. Here’s Bill’s rundown of what he’s put in the new edition:

•  600+ new pages, with more than 650 others updated with new facts, better photographs and corrected information.

•  Every home/road/alternate team uniform change for every team since the 2015 edition.

•  Every new patch worn by each team, including all one-day memorials.

•  A photo-record of every St. Patrick’s Day, throwback, and ethnic heritage jersey.

•  All of the new 2017 batting practice jerseys.

•  All of the 2016 and ’17 spring training jerseys.

•  A new chapter covering the 1970 and ’71 Washington Senators.

•  All of the Memorial Day, Independence Day, Mother’s Day, and Father’s Day uniforms for every year they’ve been worn, plus a preview of the 2017 designs.

•  The chapters for the Expos, Padres, and Royals have been extended back into the flannel era to reach back to 1969, so all of the uniforms from these teams’ start in MLB are included. (The Brewers chapter also includes the 1969 Pilots.)

•  A new chapter with “Stitchers’ Stories,” featuring candid memories from a half dozen people on the inside who design and sew player uniforms.

•  Lots of newly discovered oddballs, prototypes and arcane details that we are known for in our obsessive quest for completeness.

Bill also provided me with about 75 assorted pages from the new edition, which I’ve uploaded into this document. If you’ve never seen Bill’s guide before, it’s a good primer; if you’re already a fan, this will give a you a good sense of some of the new content.

As I’ve said many times before, I refer to Bill’s guide almost daily ”” not just for work, but because it’s fun and fascinating. Brimming with info on patches, NOB styles, makers’ marks, jock tags, throwbacks, one-off designs, prototypes, and lot more, it’s an invaluable reference for anyone who cares about MLB uniforms. Since it’s entirely digital, you can download it and start enjoying it immediately upon purchase. Even better, Bill is generously offering a 25% discount to Uni Watch readers ”” use the code “LogoCreep” at checkout, which knocks the price down to $30. Get it here.

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Purp Walk preview: Next Wednesday is May 17. That’s the 11th anniversary of the site’s first entry, which means it’s also Purple Amnesty Day — the one day of the year that we accept orders for membership card designs that include purple. So if you’re a Ravens, Vikings, Rockies, LSU, or Northwestern fan, get those membership orders ready! Once the 24-hour window closes, it will remain shut for another year.

And for the third consecutive year, we’ll also have a purple shirt for sale. This one, like the ones from 2015 and ’16, has been designed by Bryan Molloy. It’s his entry in our 2017 Uni Watch Artist’s Series, and it’s a beauty. Dig (for all of the photos in this section, you can click to enlarge):

Nice, right? There are a lot of elements to this one, people, so bear with me here. One thing at a time:

•  The shirt, as you can see, is a raglan-sleeved baseball shirt. The torso color is a light heather grey, not white.

•  The logo on the shirt was inspired by the New York Athletic Club logo, but with purple lilacs instead of laurel wreath:

•  The shirt itself is super-duper-soft. Seriously, it’s about the softest cotton shirt I’ve ever felt. I’d love to wear it 24/7 except for, well, you know.

•  Unlike our other shirts, this one will not be sold via Teespring. It will be sold via a page on Bryan’s website. That’s because…

•  Each shirt will include a hang tag, which will be attached to the shirt with a loop of purple-striped baker’s twine. Bryan designed the hang tag and will be personally hole-punching all of them, threading the string through the holes, and attaching the strings to the shirts with little safety pins. Here’s a closer look at the front and back:

•  Each order will also come with a Purp Walk sticker (quarter shown for scale):

•  Bryan will be personally packing each shirt in a purple bubble mailer with a purple Uni Watch sticker on the outside:

•  Because of all the extra bells and whistles, the price point is a bit higher than on most of our other shirts: $29.99. I realize that probably seems like a lot, but it actually leaves less of a profit than we make on most of our other merchandise. Basically, we really wanted to create a fun project (ideally one that’s fun for you, not just for us), and extra fun sometimes costs a bit more.

•  Speaking of the price: Because this shirt is not being sold on Teespring, it does not qualify for the 15% discount that card-carrying Uni Watch members can get on our Teespring product. HOWEVER, we may offer a membership discount on this shirt, but only for people with purple membership cards. Still finalizing the details on that. Stay tuned.

•  As usual, the shirt will only be available for 24 hours — from midnight to midnight, Eastern time, next Wednesday. No exceptions!

I think that’s it. Oh, and although I said “we” a lot, Bryan deserves most of the credit for this one. It was his concept, his design, his idea to add all the extra elements, and he nailed all of them. I needed to do less art direction on this project than I’ve done for just about any other shirt. Great job, Bry!

Oh, and just to complicate things, I have to run to Manhattan on Wednesday afternoon and get my head scanned for a custom-fitted football helmet (more on that later), but I’ll do my best to stay on top of purple membership orders. Should be the best Purp Walk yet!

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The Ticker
By Mike Chamernik

Baseball News: The Cubs and Rockies wore their alternates yesterday for a blue-vs.-purple matchup. … Pirates players, coaches and staff are wearing JAMO #50 wristbands for pitcher Jameson Taillon, who underwent surgery for suspected testicular cancer (from Jerry Wolper). … In 1995, the Tigers introduced a NNOB dark blue alternate for Sunday home games. The jersey was only worn once, though, in a game in May against Boston. David Bailey found a news clipping and a rare game photo. … The Blue Jays’ Kevin Pillar, known as “Superman” for his full-extension diving catches, has a Superman-Blue Jays logo combo T-shirt (from Jerry Wolper again). … The Orioles will give out Manny Machado Starting Lineup figurines on June 3 (from Andrew Cosentino). … There had previously been word of a New York city councilman sponsoring a bill that would extend the netting to the far end of the dugouts and NYC ballparks. But now the proposed legislation calls for the netting going all the way to each foul pole. … Here’s an article about Leatherhead, the New Jersey company that makes handcrafted vintage leather baseballs, basketballs, footballs, and soccer balls (from David Goodfriend). … Lawrence University in Wisconsin wears Nike jerseys and Under Armour caps (from Steven Gates). … The Blue Jays used to have team-branded snacks for sale at Dominion, a Canadian supermarket chain (from @BSmile). … The Orioles will be wearing a cap with a Maryland flag-patterned brim on May 20. According to their promotional schedule, they’re doing a giveaway of a Maryland flag script jersey on that date, so maybe they’ll be wearing that as well (from Ben Matukewicz).

NFL and College Football News: The Rams will wear their blue-and-yellow throwbacks on Dec. 31 against the 49ers (from Phil). … The Jaguars and Texans have switched to the new Nike jersey collar template. (from Alex Lawler and Patrick Evans). … The NFL seems to be relaxing its anti-gambling stance, as a casino, Gila River Gaming Enterprises, will meet with the Cardinals to discuss naming rights for their stadium (from Brinke). … To build team chemistry, the new 49ers coach and GM reorganized locker assignments and commissioned a painted mural of 49ers legends in the hallway outside the locker room (from Brinke). … Big Ten officiating crews wore nifty white jackets and pants back in the 1960s (from Adam Kneisler). … The website for the French clothing brand Unkut has, at the bottom of the page, a photo of a guy wearing a hat with what appears to be the Raiders’ logo, but with the leatherhead raider replaced by a skull and crossbones. The company also sells a sweatshirt featuring their own brand-adapted version of the NFL logo (from Gabe Oppenheim).

Hockey News: A grain producer in Alberta cut a “Let’s Go Oilers” message in his fields. … Russia president Vladimir Putin was in full uniform when asked about the FBI shakeup before he took the ice for a rec league game the other night (from Mark Johnson).

NBA News: Here’s what might be a sneak peak of the new NBA replica jerseys (from Conrad Burry). … An Italian chef makes sushi, or Shoe-shi, versions of NBA sneakers.

Soccer News: A bunch of items from Patrick Thomas: Manchester United has a new away jersey, and a new block font for Cup competitions. New home and road unis for Lyon. And, the new FC Bayern home kit may have been leaked. … New home, away, and third kit for Mainz, a German club (from Ed Å»elaski). … Also from Ed: The German club 1. FC Lokomotive Leipzig will wear a special yellow kit, with a graphic of the Sachsenpokal trophy on it, for the 2017 Sachsenpokal final against Chemnitzer FC. … An amateur team in the US Open Cup has a logo that blends Aztec and Colorado visual motifs (from Drew Steinhart).

Grab Bag: From Reddit yesterday: a look at how the donut hole had shrunk between the 1920s and 1940s. … PGA golfer Billy Hurley III has a new bag that is designed like the USS Chung Hoon. He served a tour of duty on the destroyer when he was in the Navy last decade (from Jeremy Fallis). … Formula 1 teams are now required to have some form of driver ID on the shark fins and larger numbers on the car’s nose starting this weekend with the Spanish Grand Prix. The Haas and Mercedes teams showed their updated designs (from Omar Jalife). … Adidas has agreed to sell off its golf brands, TaylorMade, Adams Golf and Ashworth, to KPS Capital Partners for $425 million. Adidas golf revenue dropped to $500 million last year from $1.7 billion in 2012 (from Brinke). … New logo for US Sailing. … New jersey advertiser for the rugby union team Northampton Saints (from @stumpy7780).

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What Paul did last night: There’s a new documentary about Bert Berns, one of the great music hitmakers of the 1960s, who wrote and/or produced a ton of great songs during an extraordinarily prolific five-year burst, including “Twist and Shout,” “Piece of My Heart,” “Hang on Sloopy,” “Under the Boardwalk,” “Brown-Eyed Girl,” and a bunch more. I saw it yesterday and am happy to report that it’s one of the most enjoyable documentaries I’ve seen in a long time.

The trailer, embedded above, does the fairly obvious thing by showcasing the movie’s talking-head interviews with Paul McCartney (who actually gets very little screen time), Keith Richards (even less), and Van Morrison (a bit more, but still not much). I understand why they wanted some star power, but those are easily the least interesting parts of the film. Like a lot of the great New York-based writer-producers of that era, Berns was an outer-borough Jew who had (a) a surprising affinity for working with black singers and (b) Mob connections, both of which make for some compelling storylines. Toss in an extremely brassy widow, some less-than-fully-scrupulous record execs, and some of the greatest R&B talent that ever lived and you have all the characters you need for a highly entertaining biography. Great soundtrack, too. To see if the film will be playing soon in your town, look here.

Comments (189)

    As a long time Indians fan, I am overjoyed to finally see an end to that embarrassing logo. I’m in the ultimate minority, but I also would like to see the franchise change names too, back to the spiders.

    I am an Indians fan,and I am a Wahoo fan. I feel sympathy towards those who are offended by the logo, it’s just a weird spot for me since I am not into making fun of a culture or a group or religion, but I feel conflicted because when I see Wahoo, I just see the symbol for our baseball team. A cartoon.

    I don’t associate it with Native Americans because I’ve known the logo since before I’ve really known what a Native American is. It sucks that it’s going to be gone soon, it sucks that it’s an image that offends folks, and it’s weird to be caught in between something I’ve associated with a team I love and something that pisses people off.

    As Paul indicated below, nobody likes being reminded their actions, especially their *fun* actions, may have negative consequences. I liken the experience to discovering your parents were stealing Cable TV when you were growing up; through no fault of your own, your favorite programs were taken away. So my tack is to be grateful that I got to enjoy the Cleveland Indians while I could, and cherish those memories. They can no more be taken away than the Yankees’ 27 championships.

    That being said, here is something I *would* like to see: A higher profile for Indian culture. I’ve admired them all my life. I love their emphasis on spiritual well-being, athleticism and perseverance. It is an improvement on Eurocentric culture. I resent the notion that embracing aspects of their civilization amounts to a usurping; if it constitutes an improvement, you adopt it, right?

    Well, “adopting it” might be a bit less appropriative if we didn’t carry a whole lot of historical baggage.

    Our nation has a long history of loudly honoring their culture while treating the actual people pretty poorly.

    Sure, this country has treated its aboriginal inhabitants in a shitty way. But I’m less interested in wearing a hairshirt over it, and more interested in acts of redemption. Light a candle instead of cursing the darkness.

    The image in the lede is coming up as a broken link for me. Everything else from the helmets on down is working just fine.

    I’m having the same problem. Only images I see are the 15% of logo and the Purp Walk logo (and the embedded video). I’ve tried Chrome and Safari, with AdBlock turned on and off.

    I’m reminded of a quote from an old friend of mine from a long time ago:

    “Delete your cookies, dump your cache, and sacrifice a virgin. That’s the usual remedy for this sort of thing.”

    THough, in my case, I didn’t do anything but close the browser and come back. And it doesn’t auto-delete my history when I close it, either.


    I did that! No dice. I believe I’m having an issue with Flickr, not with the Uni Watch site.

    Exactly how do they “get a pass”?

    Some of us — myself included — have been opposed to the chop (and to the tomahawk imagery itself) for years.

    Not looking to relitigate any of those arguments today, so let’s please not do that, thanks. Just answering your question.

    If you were directing it at someone else, like Rob Manfred, perhaps you should specify that.

    Look: When it comes to the Native American stuff, the ’Skins team name and Wahoo are the low-hanging fruit. Things like the tomahawk chop don’t get as much attention, but there *is* opposition to them.

    Good morning Paul,
    Quick comment regarding the issue of Indian imagery and nicknames. Next time you have an opportunity to do some traveling, perhaps consider making a venture to an area of the country where there is a reservation and chat with them about their take on this hot-button topic in sports. I would love to read a piece from you about your interaction and conversations with them in person. You may have already done something like this already, but if not, be sure you’d have UW readers’ attention.

    Good point, Chris.

    I used to live in Klamath Falls, Oregon. It is near Chiloquin, home of the Klamath Tribe (and a place Paul passed on his big vaykay last year). There is a large Native American population in the area.

    When the tribal members wear pro sports themed gear, they overwhelmingly choose three teams. Given the Bay Area’s proximity (325 miles), it’s no surprise you see a lot of Raider gear around Chiloquin. However, you also see a lot of Redskins’ and Indians’ gear worn.

    I think it’s because there’s a “bigger fish to fry” with Wahoo. I see it playing out with Wahoo being forced into retirement, then they’ll move on to the name Indians (since they’re not people of India) and after that they’ll move on to the fact that 30,000 (mostly white people) nightly chant a fake Native American war chant.

    I personally don’t have an issue with things like Wahoo, but I do understand why people would. I don’t have to agree with them to respect their viewpoint. But for the life of me, I don’t understand the issue with the Blackhawks. It seems respectful to me. Maybe I’m just clueless.

    The issue with the Blackhawks is not whether it’s “respectful” or “offensive.” It’s about cultural misappropriation — using something that doesn’t belong to you. This applies to all Native imagery in sports.

    Not trying to convince you of that point; just spelling out what the point is.

    I’ll admit Paul has at least been consistent in his criticism of all Indian-themed athletica (Is that a word? Well, it is now); you can’t get a UW membership card of teams ranging through the Redskins, the Blackhawks and the Warriors. How insulting it is depends on the beholder. The Blackhawks seem to avoid calumny by having a lighter touch with their iconography, and by coming by their name indirectly (having to do with then-owner Frederic McLaughlin’s service in the 86th Infantry Division, the “Blackhawk Division”). At the very least, the way you comport yourself and your team buys a bit of good will.

    But Native American cultural misappropriation is the only one that’s ever been an issue here. Others using Asian work, Mexican work etc seem to be ok.

    One of the recent Ts for example – I’m starting to play “gotchya” & I really don’t want to go down that road

    All right, but after your saying that, I don’t want anyone dismissed for engaging in “slippery-slope arguments” against such changes. You’ve just admitted to having the entire slope marked out, tagged, and scheduled for use.

    One person’s “slippery slope” is another’s “consistent/coherent argument.” Just depends on your personal perspective (or, in many cases, your willingness to assign a nasty-sounding label to an argument instead of actually engaging with it).

    Fair enough. But if that’s so, then it’s not too soon to nip any implementation of this particular “consistent/coherent argument” in the bud.

    I’m sure I’ll be in the minority, but I’m loving those hydro dipped helmets.

    The Purp Walk Shirt is great!!

    Agreed. Although I’m afraid the camo and flag stuff may catch MLB’s interest the most.

    I fear the same thing. Its easier to overdo something than to do something new.

    Well, that Buddy Groom picture seems to disprove the assumption that the blue jerseys were worn with pinstriped pants. I’m guessing the pants shown in that Lou Whitaker collection came from the Detroit Stars throwback uniform the Tigers wear for their Negro Leagues Tribute Game, which has been held since 1995 (Lou’s last year).

    I like that jersey. It would make a good road alternate for the Detroit Tigers these days. Would look good worn with this old road hat worn briefly in the 1990s:


    What’s interesting is that the Tigers even attempted an alternate jersey at all. Both the Tigers and the Red Wings under Mike Ilitch’s ownership have resisted alternate uniforms that weren’t tied to specific, league-driven events, a trend that’s probably likely to continue as long as the Ilitch family continues to own them.

    The picture only clearly shows four players, with evidence of a fifth to the far right. We’re not seeing the full mural.


    So, we’ve got Dwight Clark, Steve Young, Roger Craig, Joe Montana, Patrick Willis, Ronnie Lott, and Jerry Rice.

    I see they only used 2 white stripes, to match their new jerseys. Too bad they didn’t stick with 3, since the mural is meant to honor their past.

    For the life of me, I would have said the Sox were link for the Purp Walk logo. Especially since they already had link.

    Chicago is link for the link. I’ve been hoping they bring it back to separate themselves a bit from Boston.

    Me too. I have mixed feelings over the whole shebang. Obviously, I like to be fair and compassionate, but I hate being po-faced and earnest. It’s inappropriate to take festive activities and turn them into opportunities to harangue and lecture. But ultimately, what the American Indians have endured gives them a really good soapbox.

    It’s inappropriate to take festive activities and turn them into opportunities to harangue and lecture.

    That’s quite a statement, Walter. Are you saying that any festive activity is by definition self-justifying and beyond critique? Lynchings were pretty festive too, ya know. Soccer riots are festive. People overturning cars after their team wins the championship are festive.

    I’m not suggesting a moral equivalence between lynchings and pro-Wahoo fans. I’m just pointing out that you’ve made what appears to be blanket assertion of breathtaking scope. Perhaps you’d like to revise it, or at least explain it?

    “Festive”, at least in my eyes, takes intent into account. Something that is not altruistic is not festive, to me. By my metric, Hitler’s political rallies were not festive. Feel free to disagree.

    So you’re saying that anything without malintent is beyond critique, even if it has unintended negative consequences, and even after those consequences are brought to light, because any such critique would ruin someone else’s fun, and ruining said fun is worse than the unintended but real consequences?

    As opposed to all those other people who *enjoy* being po-faced?

    Nobody likes hearing that their actions (especially their *fun* actions) may have negative consequences. The real question is how we respond to that news, even if we don’t like hearing it.

    I’d at least be curious to hear more about these “negative consequences,” and free to decide whether they’re serious enough to override the positives.

    The negative consequences have been spelled out here literally dozens of times before. Not interested in relitigating. Thank you, come again!

    I’ll do a search and figure it out best I can … but I’m a regular reader of this site and can’t recall seeing the “dozens” of examples that you refer to. Wish me luck in piecing it together!

    Me too, its days like these I dont like reading this site. Cant stand all this SJW crap.

    Chris, I’m sorry (really and truly, not sarcastically) if Uni Watch isn’t exactly what you want it to be every single day.

    It is, however, exactly what *I* want it to be.

    If you go back and re-read today’s post, you’ll find I didn’t do any SJW-ing. I simply reported on what’s happening. You’ll also find that the Wahoo content represents a fairly small percentage of today’s entry. If that’s still too much for for you, and you wish to take your eyeballs elsewhere, I completely understand. Thanks.

    I’m always surprised how much my own opinion on quite a few issues will move after I get intelligent arguments from both sides.

    Thx, its your site & I have been reading since the beginning. This is a conversation/argument that will continue. Im here b/c I enjoy sports & the uniforms of teams. I wont comment in the future.

    SOCIAL JUSTICE WARRIOR… pretty much it’s internet speak for someone that sticks their nose into issues that really don’t have bearing on them

    Or to put it another way, it’s internet-speak for, “I’m going to insult the person bringing up the issue instead of actually dealing with the issue itself.”

    Lifelong Indians fan, Ohioan, wearer of Wahoo caps & merch. Wahoo, regardless of politics, is iconic branding-just like the golden arches, the swoosh and the red headed girl for that Ohio founded fast food chain that rhymes with Spendys (by the way, is there a group of gingers out there offended by her?). The overwhelming majority of Indians fans prefer Wahoo over the dull block C logo. While it’s easy to call those of us who wear and buy Wahoo merch, it’s a much more appealing logo visually than the C and for generations, right, wrong or indifferent, the site of Chief Wahoo represents Cleveland baseball. There are people on both sides passionate about the logo & while it’s easy to be morally outraged and say “change it already” if it were your family owned billion dollar business you’d proceed with caution & not alienate the overwhelming majority of your fan base.

    The solution to me has always been to go back to the Caveman C the only other iconic look the Indians ever sported on their caps (go take a look-the other “C” caps either look like the other Ohio team down I-71 or the Cubs). I’ve seen more Caveman C merch pop over the past year which could mean it’s being test marketed as a potential Wahoo replacement or it could just be a way to exploit nostalgia from guys my age who grew up with that logo.

    I’ve rambled long enough but yes it’s possible a deal over Wahoo was cut to host the All Star game or maybe it was because the Dolans have done an excellent job turning around their franchise, remodeling their stadium and that the city of Cleveland has historically done a fine job hosting big events. Uni Watch could also be a front by Nike, Under Armour and Addidas to draw interest in their products. But like the Wahoo quid pro quo that’s just speculation and now more than ever, facts matter.

    Where, where? (Please note that the expression of approval is “hear, hear”.)

    Without agreeing with the apologia for the patently offensive Wahoo logo, I will second the endorsement of the crooked C from the mid-1970s. That logo, which invokes woodcutting, is the best cap logo the team has ever had. It should never have been changed, and would go with every uniform design the team has had since the logo’s introduction in 1973, including the current uniform. And, if it had been retained, we would never have seen the increase in status of Wahoo that occurred when that logo was promoted to a cap logo for the first time in team history in 1986.

    So we should keep in mind the fact that the Wahoo cap is not some remnant from back in the mists of time. Rather, it is a recent creation on the parts of people who should have known better.

    Wasn’t a smaller version of Wahoo, along with the wishbone C, on the cap in the mid 50s?

    Ah, yes. Thanks for the correction on that. So the 1986 caps weren’t the first time that Wahoo was on the cap.

    But I think that, even given that, it is still fair to say that the 1986 move caused the status of the Wahoo logo to increase to what we see today.

    “(by the way, is there a group of gingers out there offended by her?)”

    You do realize there’s an actual, real-life (and quite ginger) person behind that logo, right?

    Not according to Eric Cartman, but then again, that was a parody in a cartoon that’s known, among other things, for its War on Straw.

    Yes, the ginger in question is the daughter of the franchise founder Dave Thomas. I was being glib but now that you’ve brought it up, the expression “redheaded stepchild” does refer to someone who is unwanted. is that because red heads have been historically marginalized or because stepchildren have been?

    There’s actually quite a long history of red headed people being marginalized. For example, in medieval times it was often associated with Satanism.

    Don’t forget, red haired females are also subject to speculation involving drapery and floor treatments. One cinematic variation of this was in the film The Outsiders when Matt Collins character, Dallas Winston, met Cherry Valance (Diane Lane) and became fascinated with the veracity of her red locks.

    Off the top of my head, the “National Kick a Ginger Day” kerfuffle on Facebook some years back.

    It’s a much bigger issue in other countries such as the UK than it is here, but it’s there. In Australia, redheads are commonly called “rangas”, which is slang for orangutans. Comparing human beings to apes is pretty marginalizing if you ask me.

    sure they are they are soulless, and scary. It does not matter there was a real ging as inspiration, its offensive to me.

    jd, if that’s truly the case, I fully encourage you to start a campaign to have it changed. I’m sure you’ll include lots of good arguments to help persuade people to see your side of things. I look forward to seeing you out there fighting the good fight!

    Okay, if jd’s trolling, then it’s no longer amusing. But if jd’s serious, then this is going to a place I don’t want to be.

    He’s right, you know. I overhear casual bigotry against redheads a lot, sometimes right here in the office.

    All redheads, or just female redheads?

    In other words, is it a redhead thing, or a just a particular form of misogyny?

    In my experience, it’s almost exclusively about men. Redheaded women are often held up as being attractive in our society. Redheaded men? Not so much.

    That’s a US thing, but in England I’ve found the general stereotyping of gingers applies to all. I’ve long presumed that it’s an anti-Irish thing, but who knows?

    Tends to put link in cultural context.

    They hate us ’cause they ain’t us. Lifelong ginger, born of 2 gingers, married a ginger (second time around). With the red-headed genes being so recessive, there could one day be a world without us. Which would be sad indeed.

    I’ve been curious about this for a while now, you said “alienate half your fanbase”, does that mean that many fans allegiances are attached to the logo (I ask seriously)? When I read something like that I assume many fans will stop being fans of the team if the logo or name changes. To me it seems ridiculous, but it wouldn’t be surprising since you can really tell the “passion” that Indians and Redskins fans have for the logo/nickname.

    Somewhat of a connection, but not really: I stuck with my Angels through the “winged A” years, even though I knew the logo was ridiculous. And I still love my Clippers even with their stupid, ridiculous soul-less logo now.

    Anyway just curious exactly how attached fans of those teams are to those images.

    I think the “half the fanbase” thing is the sort of bizarre generalizing we see in politics now, where the pundit’s natural inclination is to saw any particular group in half and put exactly 50% on either extreme end of an issue.

    The players cap preferences can been seen as them not having a problem with the Wahoo logo. Same with the silence on behalf of Indians players past and present.

    I brought up the issue of John Adams as an example of how out of touch the anti-Wahoo/anti-Indians crowd is with Cleveland Indians fandom. What you call misappropriation, the majority of Indians fans view as being a loyal fan. I’ve never even heard Indians fans who are anti-Wahoo complain about John Adams. It’s those criticisms that cause the anti-Wahoo camp to be perceived as hypersensitive which then causes the entire anti-Wahoo movement to fall on deaf ears.

    The players cap preferences can been seen as them not having a problem with the Wahoo logo. Same with the silence on behalf of Indians players past and present.

    I fail to see why the opinions of five transient team employees are more important than anyone else’s opinions.

    I’m quite aware that many Indians fans disagree with the anti-Wahoo argument. That’s not exactly news. The argument will nonetheless continue. Thanks.

    Apparently MLB had a problem with the hat (bad optics?) and used the ASG as a carrot to end it’s use. So you have a couple of years to stock up on the old caps if that floats your boat.

    Pedro I think hit the nail on the pinhead when he asks if a change in logo will change fan allegiance? Ask any Browns fan, who have tolerated a funhouse of horrors to their teams threads to toss on the dumpster fire of a once iconic football franchise. Yet, despite all that drama… they still remain fans, as it will, I am sure will be for Indian (or spidermen, traders, capitans, barons, chevaliers, or what have you) fans.

    Lastly, Heisenberg’s Hat as you probably know is actually a called a Pork Pie, originally worn by link and into the 20th century in America and UK. Then popularized in the mid teens and twenty’s by the link .

    It then became the hat for the link during the 40’s and 50’s, not to mention link, link, link, and link.

    Today it is considered link to wear this hat and I agree… it’s classic, stands the test of time and if you have the head for it, is a fine choice for a hat, and apparently, has more staying power than the Indian logo.

    Love the ’17 Purp Walk shirt and additional bling. Any chance of purchasing an extra sticker or two? Or is that a question for Bryan?

    Bought Bill’s book last week. Fantastic stuff – it’s an absolute steal at $29.99

    I was already a big fan of Purple Amnesty Day and the first two shirt releases, but this year’s effort is nearly perfection. I can already tell that this year’s effort is going to be the fave of my many Uni-Watch shirts. Well done, folks.

    Ghostsnake (boo! hiss!) as there’s no FL dates for the Bert Berns documentary.

    Cleveland Captains, in honor of those who navigate the Great Lakes on the mighty lake freighters and other vessels.

    I live in northern NY and try to make an annual trip where I can see both the Indians & Pirates, so I’ve seen the Captains billboards, and TV ads. Growing up, I played dice baseball and Captains was a name I used. Growing up in Toledo, from the sandlot where I played ball all day, I could see the stacks, and sometimes the bridge, of the lake freighters as they arrived at the seaport to unload their cargo.

    In regards to the Orioles possibly wearing MD script jersey as well as those caps – yes. Heard a radio ad promoting that yesterday. If 1 were to look at the sports schedule that day, the assumption could be made that the MD flag unis are a tie-in to Preakness.

    That’s an awful damn snazzy looking cap. I’d buy one, but, as a Yankees fan, I’m certain that wearing a cap from another AL East team would cause me to burst into flames.

    That D’backs helmet is f’in cool. Can’t wait for the link to see the rest. Great concepts so far minus the Nats

    Awesome stuff! A shooting comet on either side of the Astros lid should solve the paint spatter issue

    Those were good concepts – Brewers helmet as a beer glass perhaps, with some head (foam) on top

    I actually mocked that exact idea up as a joke for myself earlier this week while working on the project lol!

    Angus, any chance we could see the designs that were not posted in the ESPN article?

    Can I get a membership card and the amnesty day shirt shipped internationally (UK)? How do I go about covering the extra cost?

    Card: No extra charge. (It’s just a 1-ounce envelope. I can eat the extra 85¢ or whatever it costs to mail an envelope to the UK.)

    Shirt: Not sure. Will find out!

    Henderson’s guide? Take my money!

    Just looking at that cover, I want to dive into that picture and roll around on the floor in a pile of those jerseys! HAHAHHA


    Does anyone else think the ads on this site are a bit intrusive? I’m opposed to running any sort of ad blocker so as to allow content creator throughout the web to make money through creating. However, recently the autoplay videos are driving me crazy. Today, I couldnt find the video to pause it, and had to resort to muting it by righting clicking the tab in the browser and selecting to mute it there. Othertimes, multiple videos play at once for an orchestra of incoherent ads. The other issue, is trying to click on a link from the article (or ticker) and a popup page opens instead of the link the first time.

    Matt, you’re getting auto-play videos?

    That shouldn’t be happening. If it happens again, please send me a screen shot and I’ll look into it. Thanks!

    I’ve gotten them before too. They’ve even grabbed my screen and scrolled to them (They usually appear below the tags and above the comments).

    I’ll get a screenshot the next time it happens.

    The great thing about getting rid of Wahoo is that it does absolutely NOTHING to solve the “issue”, while also pissing off a good portion of the team’s fans. When one of the biggest groups opposed is against the entire concept of Native American team names, anything less than changing the name means that the protests will continue.

    Translation: If you can’t fix everything, don’t bother trying to fix anything.

    That’s always a convenient argument for people who don’t think there’s any problem that needs fixing to begin with.

    Your underlying point, though, is correct: The logo and the team name *both* need to go.

    When one of the biggest groups opposed is against the entire concept of Native American team names, anything less than changing the name means that the protests will continue.

    But the mere act of protest doesn’t mean you should get everything you want.

    The reason people protest something is that they care about that issue. Whether you agree or not doesn’t undermine their feelings. Point is we may not ever understand because some of us aren’t Native Americans, but we should at least strive to be compassionate about it.

    the mere act of protest doesn’t mean you should get everything you want.

    Classic straw man argument. Nobody ever claimed that the mere act of protest is an entitlement to change. Rather, it’s an *argument for* change. As is the case with most arguments, protests are usually met with counter-arguments. The arguments and counter-arguments are all attempts to persuade, to win over hearts and minds. And then we see how it all plays out. That’s called society.

    So I’m curious for those of you who are anti-Wahoo & want the team nickname changed-how do you feel about John Adams banging his drum out in the bleachers? Here’s a guy who has bought season tickets for himself and his drum in good times and bad. Are his actions racist & insensitive? I’m curious as to how far some of you go in your outrage.

    Has one single player active or past ever spoken out about Wahoo? I can’t recall one. The starting pitcher chooses the uniform & at least 60% of the time it’s the Wahoo cap that’s worn.

    1) It is not a “nickname.” It is the team’s official name.

    2) Speaking only for myself, I am not “outraged” by any of this. I simply think the use of Native imagery without permission by non-Native sports teams is wrong, for reasons I’ve spelled out many times.

    3) Again speaking only for myself, I have never once accused anyone on the other side of this debate of being racist.

    4) I am not familiar with John Adams. If he’s banging a drum specifically as a reference to Native war drums, I’d say an act of cultural misappropriation, similar to the tomahawk chop. If he’s just banging a drum out of general enthusiasm (like the Mets’ “Cow Bell Man” guy), then he should have no trouble continuing to do that even if the team name is changed. (His season ticketholder status strikes me as moot. One’s actions at the ballpark should be assessed on their own terms, whether you’ve a longtime fan or a fair weather fan.)

    5) I fail to see what the players’ cap preferences have to do with this debate.

    I don’t see why John Adams banging a drum in the bleachers, especially with no other sense of context, would bother me or anyone else. But perhaps you’re a John Adams supporter that feels offended by how he’s been represented throughout history. If that’s the case, and you can make a valid argument to make your point, I’d be willing to at the very least listen.

    People should look at it this way. Somewhere, that logo was designed and you can picture a group of baseball executives looking at it and making tweaks.

    “Make the nose bigger!” “Yeah! The smile needs to be bigger! Them little buggers are always smiling!” More red… and part the hair like that injun on TV!”

    So they do that, and sell it to the fans, calling it respectful and fun. After years it becomes iconic. Seriously though, just LOOK at it. That’s just not right. There’s a reason why Speedy Gonzalez is no longer teaching your kids about Mexican stereotypes anymore. Times are changing. We know better now. It’s offensive to the point of comical. It’s not a Trump vs Obama, Liberal vs Conservative thing. Polarizing politics is making almost everything a negotiation anymore. This should be above that. This logo is just ugly. It’s a disturbing look at what people thought was ok decades ago.

    Meanwhile, the swingin’ padre is still a perfectly acceptable representation of a priest. Perhaps, sometimes a whimsical cartoon is just a whimsical cartoon and those who insist on seeing it for more than that are the ones with the real problem.

    Also, Speedy Gonzalez was brought back after it turned out that the people that he was supposedly disrespecting actually really liked the character.

    The Jeff,

    That is because the “Swingin Padre” was based on an actual priest (portly though he may be), and sad to say no longer used in the very drab current Padre kit. I miss it.

    Speedy Gonzalez was brought back? Holy Frito Bandito! by whom?

    Quoting from Wikipedia (yeah, I know):

    Feeling that the character presented an offensive Mexican stereotype, Cartoon Network shelved Speedy’s films when it gained exclusive rights to broadcast them in 1999 (as a subsidiary of Time Warner, Cartoon Network is a corporate sibling to Warner Bros.). In an interview with Fox News on March 28, 2002, Cartoon Network spokeswoman Laurie Goldberg commented, “It hasn’t been on the air for years because of its ethnic stereotypes.”[5]

    Despite such controversy over potentially offensive characterizations, Speedy Gonzales remained a popular character in Latin America.[5] The Hispanic-American rights organization League of United Latin American Citizens called Speedy a cultural icon, and thousands of users registered their support of the character on the message boards. Fan campaigns to put Speedy back on the air resulted in the return of the animated shorts to Cartoon Network in 2002.[6]

    Speedy Gonzales also appeared occasionally on The Looney Tunes Show, living with Bugs and Daffy as their “mouse in the wall” and running the pizza parlor Pizzarriba. He is shown to act as Daffy’s conscience, which is a far cry from the antagonistic relationship they had in the old days. The episode “Sunday Night Slice” showed that Bugs bought his favorite restaurant, Girardi’s, to prevent it from being closed and hired Speedy to help him. When Bugs decides he doesn’t want to own a restaurant anymore, he hands ownership of it to Speedy. In “The Black Widow,” Speedy Gonzales answers Daffy Duck’s call and races to Tacapulco to convince Sheriff Slowpoke Rodriguez to let Daffy Duck and Porky Pig out of jail.

    Speedy Gonzales appeared in the 2015 Straight to video movie Looney Tunes: Rabbits Run. He is seen as Lola Bunny’s landlord.

    So… yeah… as of 2 years ago, Speedy was still an active character.

    I look forward to the conversation where we learn rank and file American Indians were big fans of Wahoo, all along. Maybe it will happen, maybe it won’t. But Wahoo has to retire for that conversation to have a chance to take place.

    Well I guess I’m not surprised Speedy Gonzalez resurfaced in that regard. Animated TV is targeted for adults now too. I see they’re even going to give him his own movie. It was a bit different though when I was growing up. Racial jokes in cartoons was the norm, even knowing kids were the target audience.

    The Padres logo is not near as insulting as the Indians. (just LOOK at it) My father who disagrees with me uses Pizza box Italians as his argument, being we’re of Italian descent. I reply, if it is also offensive, then the Indians logo is still offensive. Nothing justifies Chief Wahoo this day. To each their own though. I don’t spit on the ground or lecture any Indians fan who wears it.

    The Padres logo is not near as insulting as the Indians. (just LOOK at it)

    Here’s the thing, I HAVE looked at it. I’ve lived in Ohio my entire life. I’ve seen Chief Wahoo for 30+ years, and I absolutely don’t understand what the hell is supposed to be so terrible about it. It’s a smiling cartoon character. It’s not exactly realistic, but then what cartoon character is? What about it is supposed to be negative towards Native Americans? Since when is a big smile a *bad* thing? Heck, Wahoo apparently has better dental care than the entire UK. Why should anyone feel insulted or disparaged or… whatever by this image?

    It’s a smiling cartoon character. It’s not exactly realistic, but then what cartoon character is? What about it is supposed to be negative towards Native Americans? Since when is a big smile a *bad* thing? Heck, Wahoo apparently has better dental care than the entire UK.

    It’s remarkable how that argument, word for word, applies here:

    Well, that’s the thing. “Offensive” is a subjective term. To me, Wahoo represents the baseball team from Cleveland, no more, no less. His appearance is so silly and cartoonish that I just don’t see any resemblance to any human being, past or present. He doesn’t represent American Indgens any more than Speedy Gonzalez represents Mexicans, Pepe LePew represents French skunks, Elmer Fudd represents white men, or Yosemite Sam represents…..whatever the Frak he’s supposed to be.

    To me, Wahoo represents the baseball team from Cleveland, no more, no less. His appearance is so silly and cartoonish that I just don’t see any resemblance to any human being, past or present. He doesn’t represent American Indgens…

    Let me get this straight: A caricature of a Native American, complete with a feather, who’s the logo for a team called the Indians, doesn’t represent American Indians?

    You can argue that the caricature is harmless (although I’d disagree). You can argue that cultural misappropriation is no big deal (although I’d disagree). But you’re arguing that Wahoo has NOTHING to do with Native Americans?

    Come on, Jon. You’re smarter than that.

    Indeed Paul. If they’d have called it pretty much anything other than “Darkie” they’d have been fine. It’s frelling toothpaste. Showing how white it can make your teeth is the entire point.

    Jeff, you are seriously arguing that if the toothpaste had been called, say, Colgate, that that image would be “fine”?

    I don’t know you.

    I don’t want to know you.

    You can’t say something like that unless you’re either (a) trolling in the most despicable, unforgivable way, or (b) ignorant of American racial history in a way I find difficult to fathom.


    Paul, I didn’t say he had NOTHING to do with American Indigens. I said that, to me, he represents the baseball team from Cleveland. If I see someone wearing a cap with Wahoo on it, I think, hey, that’s an Indians fan, not hey, that person is mocking American Indigens. I’m not saying anyone who sees it that way is wrong, I’m just saying that I don’t.

    If I see someone wearing a cap with Wahoo on it, I think, hey, that’s an Indians fan, not hey, that person is mocking American Indigens.

    But now you’re talking about intent of mockery — that wasn’t what we were discussing! You’re moving the goalposts.

    You said Wahoo “doesn’t represent Native Americans.” I’m not asking you if you think Wahoo is a symbol of mockery, or degradation, or pride, or honor, or anything else. In other words, I’m not asking you to assign a qualitative value to him. I’m simply asking if you stand by your statement that a caricature of a Native American, which serves as a logo for a team called the Indians, does not represent Native Americans. Because I think that’s a breathtaking statement.

    You should take a look at the time Hank Ketcham tried to introduce a black character to “Dennis The Menace”. His depiction of the kid (named Jackson) was the epitome of a tin-eared stereotype, with huge lips, googly eyes, and Brillo hair. An uproar ensued. Ketcham said, “Look, it’s a caricature! Dennis is a caricature! His parents are caricatures! Nothing in the strip is not a caricature!!” More than anything, it demonstrated how the road to Hell can be paved with good intentions.

    The key words in my post were “to me”. To me, Wahoo represents a baseball team. Just like Ronald McDonald represents a certain fast food joint. I’m not moving goal posts. I’m just explaining how I see it. Remember, Paul, I’m not that complicated. ;)

    So you are standing by your statement that a caricature of a Native American, complete with a feather, which serves as the logo for a team called the Indians, does not represent Native Americans. To you.

    There isn’t much more to say.

    Just like a leprechaun spoiling for a fight as a logo for a team called the Fightin’ Irish doesn’t represent Irish people. To me.

    ” The Blue Jays used to have team-branded snacks for sale at Dominion, a Canadian supermarket chain (from @BSmile)”

    In the early days, the Jays had quite a relationship with Dominion.

    In addition to all the groceries, Dominion sold undated Jays tickets. When they were still playing at Exhibition Stadium and there were something like 25,000 general admission grandstand seats, you could buy undated grandstand seats (face value $2) for a dollar from any cashier. The tickets were good for any game that season.


    A dollar to go to a major league game!!!

    It blows my mind now. My dad and I would decide to go to the game, we’d stop at the grocery store and spend $2 on a pair of tickets and then head to the ballpark. Unimaginable now.

    May 20th is the same date as the Preakness. I’m guessing that’s why the O’s are wearing the MD flag hats/unis.

    If it takes “a couple of years” to phase out any design, the marketing guys at MLB are probably behind it. Otherwise, they could just remove it from the uniform.

    And I like the block C cap. clean, simple.

    Vegas Golden Knights tryouts for new youth program. The gave the kids Black or white Knights Practice Jerseys. link

    Wow, that first donut on the photo does not look like any donut I’ve come across in my lifetime! They must have called it something else back then.

    Correction: “Chung-Hoon” is hyphenated for the admiral for whom the vessel is named.


    Hey Paul: I didn’t see anything about it on any of the video posted by MLB- but with the Mets away and home Memorial Day weekend- it looks like they need two sets of GI Joes. MLB shop now has two sets of authentics. I had seen the home previously- but now there is an away GI Joe jersey?

    I knew that they said they were going to wear the holiday uniforms all weekend- but wasn’t sure how they were handling Memorial Day. If this holds true- conceivably two sets for Independence Day weekend (which could stretch 5 days)?

    Yes, it was reported that way from the start: Because of the way they’re handling it this year, some teams will need separate home and road designs for Memorial Day and Independence Day.

    Very true, the only annoying part to me is that it seems some people always strive to “pick” on Paul. Maybe pick isn’t the right word since I’m sure he doesn’t mind it. Just seems like people are just trying to prove Paul wrong more than anything else.

    When engaged in a debate, it’s somewhat natural to make the discussion somewhat personal. I understand why people do it.

    But whenever possible, I try to steer the discussion back to the message, not the messenger (whether the messenger is me or someone else). Even an asshole can be right; even a saint can be wrong. In most cases, the ideas are more important than the people expressing them. It’s sometimes hard to separate the two, but it’s the standard I always try to maintain here.

    Paul, my intent was not to pick a fight with you or any of the other anti-Wahoo folks. I respect your opinions and I hope I was not disrespectful to any of the commenters. I think a good chunk of Indians fans are ready to end the Wahoo debate once and for all. I’ve even written to team executives urging them, if the decision to move on from Wahoo is made, to utilize the Caveman C. With at least a new alt uni rumored to be rolled out next year it wouldn’t surprise me to see Wahoo gone by opening day next year. I don’t expect the Indians name to go anywhere as long as they call Cleveland home but we’ll see. I never thought I’d see the football team leave town either.

    Oh, for sure. I didn’t say you were disrespectful or that you’d been unduly personal in your arguments, nor did I mean to imply that. I was simply responding to Pedro’s post about how some people try to make it a “Paul thing” (or, I guess, an “anti-Paul thing”). That’s all.

    For what it’s worth: I think the block-C is way too plain. Cleveland fans deserve better than that. I agree that the caveman-C would be a very good option.

    I, for one, appreciate the conversation. I seldom agree with Paul, but I can honestly say that he often makes me think about an issue from a perspective I hadn’t previously considered. I may still disagree, but I have nothing but respect for Paul, Phil, and the entire Uni-Watch community.

    This website is a godsend. I strive to make my opinions heard, but Paul and his cohorts have persuaded me to approach my arguments with a sense of empathy. Whenever I get knocked down a peg or two, I know it is done cautiously and with keen insight. If I take a dustup personally, I know to return with humility and a bit of research to back me up. I feel at home here.

    Hey I’m decently new to this site what is your opinion on the rebel identification; such as ole miss.

    Not a fan of teams using any symbolism that references the Confederacy.

    But the term “Rebels” has other implications, which I explored here:

    Was really hoping the purple amnesty shirt would include a new ethnic stereotype like the Samurai but it it is sooooo cool I will definitely order one anyway and might even wear it during you know since my girlfriend is a big Prince fan hahaha

    Just my luck. Someone publicly declares that they plan to wear a Uni Watch shirt while having sex, and it turns out that it’s the *purple* shirt!

    Someone earlier today brought up the Golden State Warriors for some reason in the same discussion as Chief Wahoo. The NBA team has retired the use of Indian imagery for decades now, it’s a dead issue. The term “warriors” isn’t cultural appropriation when you’re using the term in a different context. About a decade ago, Golden State used a futuristic type of warrior, and there are other options for the word as well. There’s no reason for Golden State to change their nickname.

    Actually, nobody brought up Golden State. What was brought up earlier was the team name “Warriors” (a name that has been used by many teams at many levels in many sports over the years), not Golden State per se. If you do a search on “Golden State” in today’s comments, you’ll find that the only person who has referred to it is you.

    I came up with a “middle ground” solution between Wahoo and the “C”. One can found it here:


    What do y’all think?

Comments are closed.