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Uni Watch

The Robert Harvell Files, Vol. 6

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Robert Harvell’s photo archive continues to be a bottomless source of gridiron goodness. Here’s the latest batch from his collection:

• A wordmark on the sleeve is never a good idea.

• Ah, but how about a wordmark on the shoulders? Not sure I’ve ever seen that before.

• Something else I don’t think I’ve seen: NOBs rendered in a stencil font.

• Speaking of NOBs, I never liked it when the NFL zebras wore POBs (position on back). Always looked kinda rinky-dink to me.

• And speaking of rinky-dink NOBs, remember when the Chiefs and Raiders used that small-ish font? Did every AFL team do that, or just those two?

• Really interesting to see the red clips on the Snake’s facemask. Here’s another view.

• Man, remember when the Cowboys’ “silver” pants were basically charcoal?

• I have absolutely zero memory of this NBC Sports logo.

• Attention all DIYers: Please feel free to make one of these for me. Here’s another view. Texture, baby!

• I like how the old-school stripes on this jersey were modified to form a letter.

• When I go biking in Prospect Park these days, I see lots of female joggers wearing shorts with some logo — usually of a university — on their ass. Strikes me as somewhat less than classy. Little did I know that this concept had been in use years ago by the Redskins and Niners. (And I guess we could call this a related example. And look at that stirrup at lower right, in Uni Watch colors!)

• Here’s a great view of Wisconsin’s old “W” logo, fore and aft.

• You probably know that Raymond Berry used aviator goggles to fashion crude sunglasses for himself. What you probably don’t know — and I didn’t know it either — is that a U. of Chicago player did something similar years earlier.

• Speaking of goggles, here’s a good view of Joe Washington’s.

• Quick reaction: What do you think the “CB” logo on these shorts stands for? Of the several possible answers, I absolutely would not have chosen this one. Anyone ever seen that logo before?

• Not sure what I like better here: the schedule placard or the coach in high-cuffed pants.

• Man, the Giants’ old helmet uni numbers were huge!

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Collector’s Corner, by Brinke Guthrie

Focusing on mugs, cups, and glassware today. They’re great collectors’ items for a couple of reasons: One, they’re functional. And two, a big ol’ mug lasts forever — it won’t wear out or fade like a T-shirt or pennant. Of course, your mom can drop it when she washes it, but that’s another story.

• We’ll start with a KC Royals mug sponsored by A&P. Bonus points if you know about A&P without looking it up.

• I remember this guy. I ragged on him in Dallas and I was only like 12. I called him “Bad Day Biittner.” [I was always fascinated by his surname because of the double-i. — PL]

• This is supposed to be an Eagles helmet mug, but it looks more like a big green lump.

• Here’s a 1950s Detroit Lions “World Champions” glass. Sounds weird when you say it out loud, doesn’t it?

• For PL, here’s an orange 1960s Mr. Met cup.

• Here’s a classic: an NFL “double-bar facemask” mug from the 1970s!

• Man cannot live by beverage receptacles alone, so let’s turn our attention to this old NFL helmet poster. But what’s the team to the right of the Packers?

• The early-’70’s NFL Chiquita stickers are my eBay Holy Grail. This guy wants $20 for one sticker!

• Here’s a very nice late-’70s/early-’80s NFL pin set.

Seen something on eBay that you think would make good Collector’s Corner fodder? Send your submissions here.

Signal Flare: Hey, Mike Stratford — the package arrived. Thanks so much!

Uni Watch News Ticker: Turns out Jamie Moyer isn’t the only Phillies pitcher who’s wearing the team’s Liberty Bell stirrups. That’s J.C. Romero. Now we just need to get him to hike up his cuffs (good spot by Shawn Sweeney). ”¦ Now that the Twins are no longer playing in the Metrodome, the Vikings are painting the place purple (horrifying news from Matt Benz). ”¦ Tennessee State football is going back to a white helmet and NOBs (as reported by Jeff Hunter). ”¦ Jake Kurtz sent along some shots of the great striped stirrups worn by Storm Lake High School in Iowa. “None of them wear batting gloves, either,” he says. “A real old-school bunch.” ”¦ The logo for next year’s NHL All-Star Game has been unveiled. ”¦ We’ve seen the Wild’s 10th-anniversary patch before, but I think this is the first time I’ve seen a close-up of it in embroidered form, rather than as a jpeg. ”¦ More views of the new Pac-10 logo keep showing up, although the official unveiling won’t be until later today. ”¦ Striped socks vs. striped socks! That’s Manchester City and Sporting Clube de Portugal from Friday night. Additional pics here (with thanks to Jen Muller). ”¦ “I took this photo at Oregon Health Sciences University in Portland,” writes Casey B. “It was at the top of the tram entering the hospital. How awesome is it that the medical department is wearing sweaters with the skull and crossbones?” ”¦ Lots of great photos of hockey old-timer Galen Head, mostly from his Johnstown Jets days, here (with thanks to Tim Gerland). ”¦ The KBO All-Star Game was last weekend, and Hong Sung-heun of the Lotte Giants entered the game wearing a fake beard — a follow-up to the wig he wore last year (thanks, Jeremy). ”¦ Last night provided our first look at the Yankees’ three memorials on their road jersey. ”¦ The Concussion Chronicles, continued: A new poster about concussion risks will hang in all NFL locker rooms this season. Further details here. It’s worth noting, by the way, that the author of that article, Alan Schwarz, is almost single-handedly responsible for many of the changes the NFL has made on the head-injury front over the past year. If not for the Pulitzer committee’s longtime bias against sports reporting, Schwarz would be polishing his first Pulitzer now and working on his second one. ”¦ While looking for something else, I found a great shot of Frank Robinson’s drop-down NOB with the Reds.

Reminder: I’ll be taking a one-month break from the site after this week. Phil will handle weekday posts in August, and webmaster John Ekdahl will handle the weekends. Ticker contributions will be forwarded to Phil, but I’ll still be on the lookout for new college football unveilings. If any of those hit your radar screen, you can alert me at this address. Thanks.

 
  
 
Comments (156)

    So, if a wordmark on the sleeve is never good, can we please tell the Bears to get rid of the GHS?

    What is more offensive, the GSH, a homage to a pioneer of the sport, or the hideous orange hunting jersey?

    I guess we could call this a related example. And look at that stirrup at lower right, in Uni Watch colors.

    what stirrup?

    outstanding…gotta get rpm on that straight away

    To use an internet meme here..

    If you saw the stirrup first, I have bad news for you…

    upon closer inspection…

    although obvious to some I’m sure, the sock wearer in question is most likely the leprechaun as

    1. his shoulders are the same height as the cheerleader and well under the male cheerleader on her left
    2. that appears to be a shillelagh of some sort in his left hand

    Photo had to be between 1977-80, the years ND wore green exclusively. We need more such photos. Everything in there is nice.

    Squinting really hard at the helmet poster, it looks like the helmet next to GB has the same United tagline as on the bottom of the poster. Same font too.

    The poster might have come out in 1967, when the Saints had just come into existence and the Bengals hadn’t yet. But yeah, I just counted 8 AFL teams and didn’t notice that the expansion Dolphins were there while the Oilers weren’t.

    It’s possible the Bengals didn’t exist yet to be missing.

    The helmets shown aren’t all consistent with a single year.

    Perhaps it’s the Seahawks. Ya know, the first year they didn’t even have a helmet logo! I’m surprised that fact isn’t in the Uni-FAQ by now.

    I love A&P. It was actually a question last night, getting the people to name “Atlantic” and “Pacific”, what it stands for!

    The New Jersey Devils will once again have one “Retro Jersey Night” in the upcoming season. Friday, March 18, 2011 vs. the Washington Capitals.

    This event was listed in the season ticket offer I received yesterday.

    Great picture of Army coach Red Blaik and Leroy Nunn before the ’53 season. They went 7-1-1 and some say they were the best team since the Mr. Inside and Mr. Outside teams. Vince Lombardi was a coach for them that year.

    Way to go, Rick.

    Once upon a time, Army fielded Top Ten football. Blaik — the coach of the glory years — was a West Point grad himself, with a national rep as a peerless strategist and maker of men. 18 seasons, 121-32-10.

    With Army as a gridiron power and Columbia, Princeton and Fordham as solid contenders, a New Yorker could actually go see some big-time college football. I do believe, however, that the top teams of 1953 wouldn’t have a chance against the top teams of today. Not even close.

    But who knew?

    gotta love those classic helmet looks in that United ad…the Broncos, Redskins, Bills, Eagles, Rams, Falcons. Why don’t any of the helmets have facemasks on them?

    What about that logo on the Falcon’s helmet, though? Did they actually ever wear it that far forward on the helmet? I always remember the wing coming down more on top of the ear hole.

    Thinking about Ricko’s posts about throwbacks the last couple days, it occurs to me that the issue is what makes uni watching what it is. The power of throwbacks is that they generate a response from fans who remember them, with the history lesson a distant second.

    When the Chiefs wore Dallas Texans uniforms last year, the response in Kansas City wasn’t “How nice to see the uniforms of the Chiefs’ predecessors.” It was “WTF is the state of Texas doing on the Chiefs’ helmets?”

    There are two NHL teams who could plausibly wear North Stars sweaters. The one whose intellectual property they are would get a few nods from people who understood the history, and a lot of blank looks. In the region where it evokes Lou Nanne and Bill Goldsworthy and Dino Cicarelli and Neil Broten (to name a few), the arena would go nuts when the Wild came out in them.

    The connection fades over time; I don’t know that many people not named Timmy would recognize a Cleveland Rams uniform, let alone get excited about it. But even though the Indianapolis Colts wear essentially the same uniform as the 1958 champions, I’m sure the 50th anniversary was celebrated in Baltimore, where there’s a statue of Johnny Unitas outside the stadium, and not in the Hoosier Dome. St. Louis football fans who remember the ’70s relate to the Cardiac Cards, not the Fearsome Foursome.

    Even as we pick apart the details that are wrong, Uni Watchers are the most likely group to appreciate throwbacks in the abstract. More concretely, as a vehicle to sell tickets and merchandise, throwbacks work better with people who connect to them. If that means that the Nationals adopt Senators throwbacks, while the Twins and Rangers stick to unis they wore after they left Washington, it works better for everyone.

    Hey Ricko,
    Do you think the Twins and Rangers could do an all-Nationals game next time they play each other? You know, to do some kind of reverse-throwback game. (A launch-forward game?) No need to tax the creative department–just grab some Nats gear off the rack. And yes, preferably on an off-day for the real Nationals/ex-Expos.

    My God man, are you insane? Do you have any idea what damage that could cause to the space-time continuum?

    That’s worse than last year’s NFL giving us the Titans (as the Oilers) vs the Jets (as the Titans).

    Y’know, I think that’s really the core issue for me. It’s just overdone.

    The Nationals (and the National League, for that matter) have little or no history in Washington? So what, some teams DON’T have much of anything MLB to throw back to. Is that really a big deal? Let them find something else…or just not bother with it.

    I simply don’t think history should be put in a blender just so it’s easier for people who don’t want to learn anything to digest…or because it moves merchandise.

    —Ricko

    But Ricko, your assumption that recognizing the history that local fans bring to the experience is “blenderizing” or “dumbing down” or is in any way associated with “people who don’t want to learn anything” is, as far as I know, simply false. This point is beyond the realm of agree-to-disagree opinion; you’re making a statement of fact about the nature of the world that, if true, you will be able to demonstrate by reference to evidence. Since the phenomenon you describe as being inherent in Team B honoring preceding Team A completely defies every firsthand experience I have, I ask you to please do us the favor of backing your statement with any evidence whatsoever rather than simply reasserting it.

    Because I gotta tell you, every Washington baseball fan I know, and every Nats front-office employee I’ve spoken with over the years, understands the history of prior teams in Washington, and understands and cares about that history more than any Twins or Rangers fan I have ever met. The 1924 World Series means something to many Nats fans; it means virtually nothing to nearly all Twins fans. When the Nats honor the Senators, they’re not catering to people who don’t want to learn anything, they’re catering to the interests and expectations of fans who are in fact quite knowledgeable about the matter. And, of course, selling merchandise — though in truth most throwback games do not result in any merch sales, because most of the time the Nats don’t sell throwback-related jerseys or caps.

    I’ll go a step further and suggest that not only is your notion of “putting history in a blender for people who don’t want to learn anything” wrong, it is very nearly the opposite of true. It is, in other words, a Joe Morgan statement. When I attended a Nats Grays-themed throwback game in 2008, I had several conversations with other fans who either didn’t know about Negro Leagues baseball in Washington at all or who knew about the Grays in Pittsburgh but not about their time in Washington. All of these people gained a richer and more accurate understanding of baseball history entirely because they happened to go to attend a throwback game, and two of these conversations were with fathers who were with their sons, so this knowledge was being learned and passed on to a new generation at the same time. So in my experience, the sorts of throwback events you decry as catering to historical ignorance actually reduce ignorance and increase sophisticated historical understanding.

    But again, if you have any evidence whatsoever to back your claim about the dumbing-down effect of throwbacks on historical appreciation, I’m all ears.

    The Senators were also known as the Nationals, during their long history.

    I was disappointed that the Nats didn’t wear Expos throwbacks this past Friday night in Milwaukee. But then the team did reissue the Spos retired numbers, so they don’t want to link to that Montreal’s history.

    Paul-

    Enjoy your well-deserved vacation! I’m sure I speak for all when I say we appreciate all the work you put into this blog.

    Larry Biittner . . . I remember reading a mid-70’s Rangers prospectus which described his defense as “Larry Biittner . . .two ‘r’s, two ‘i’s, two ‘t’s . . .all thumbs.

    “I don’t remember that NBC Sports logo…”
    Ah, the early 1970s, the warlike jazz sounds of “Don’t Turn Away” interspersed with the electronic beeps. One of the better sports themes, and NBC used it for everything.

    link

    link

    link

    That NBC football theme still sends tingles down my spine.

    Sunday mornings, 10 o’clock, middle of a Minnesota corn field…the east coast AFC game was on!

    It rivaled the original Monday Night Football in the coolness factor of this 13 year old. Plus, for a…literally– millisecond here and there, I caught sight of my elusive Bengals being “highlighted” on national tv (Essex Johnson, Tommy Casanova).

    If anyone can find the theme music that NBC used on baseball in the late 1970s, I would love to hear it. I actually have some clips of it on a dying cassette tape. It was used at the end of the ’79 NL playoffs and I have parts of it on tape. Could never understand the words (something like “fly away” in there). It sounded like a late ’70s version of the early ’70s NBC music.

    I remember that logo from Super Bowl IX. Pretty sure they used it up until ’78, when they went to the big N logo.
    link

    Here’s the full, unedited “disco” version of the NBC Sports theme, from around 1977
    Makes me think of the early Bryant Gumbel.
    link

    For those as in love with the throwbacks as I, the Packers have finally link (and assorted stuff) for sale at the Pro Shop.

    Not a huge fan of the link, but link is actually a pretty good (and relatively inexpensive) recreation of the actual 1929 jersey.

    Depends on the material and thickness. If it’s single layer knit cotton, it’s definitely a long sleeve tee. If it’s got a fleece backing, sweatshirt would be more appropriate. Is that a Mitchell & Ness embroidery on the cuff? If so, they need to be making these for more teams.

    At some point you would think M&N would be happy to make the $75.00 selling a t-shirt or a sweatshirt.

    But NOOOOOOOOOOOOO. They have to much up the look by putting their garish wordmark on the sleeve. Yuk!

    That said, this item looks a bit better than the actual game jersey that is for sale. The smaller front numeral and the long sleeves work better, truer to the actual era. I do question the use of “00”. I would have picked a numeral worn by a Packer, or even a better known Packer from a later era. Unless of course “00” was actually worn by someone.

    If so, then, nevermind …..

    This looks like the Navy/Gold colors as when the Jets play in their “Titans” uni’s…

    Re: the link, I think the white helmet has a slogan on it. Not “Fly the Friendly Skies” but something like that.

    Seem to recall that we’ve seen similar ads from the period. Sort of like on link doesn’t have a blank helmet, but I’ll keep looking.

    …and oddly enough, that one is missing the Vikings and Dolphins, but has the Oilers & Bengals on it. Apparently the NFL teams couldn’t quite make up their mind on whether or not to fly United.

    At least the second poster tells you 24 of 26 teams fly United and doesn’t leave you guessing like the first one. The quality level of the second poster is much lower than the first. Look at the placement of the falcon on Atlanta’s helmet! LOL.

    Funny how they write “N.F.L.” rather than just “NFL.”

    Funny, the Bears were the first team I thought of when I saw that link (because it kinda-sorta looks like the link) but the “would not have chosen” really threw me and I started thinking colleges, Canadian teams, etc.
    ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
    link: I loved the double-I as well and I also thought it was cool that when he was a Cub, he shared first base duties with a guy who had a similar surname (Bill Buckner).

    I remember a game where Biittner was playing left field and dove for a ball, slid into the wall down the third base line and knocked himself unconscious.

    That is a Univesrity of Nebraska jersey from the early 1930s. The material sewn on the front of those mid 1920s -early 1930s jerseys are called “friction strips, which in many cases were strips of material with rubber or rubber-like strips sewn into then that wouls allegedly help “prevent” fumbles by allowing the football to be held firm against the non-skid rubber-like stripng.

    The “friction strips” came in many designs and shapes, and some athletic suppliers in that era offered an option to oder jerseys with the “friction strips” shaped in a team letter or letters. I have a few older athletic supply catalogues, and if I ever learn to scan them I will share them here.

    The Nebraska jersey from that era is perhaps the best known, but there were many others from smaller colleges, including those with 2-3 letters intermingled and connected.

    That Biitner cup was fascinating. True story: When I was in grade school, Biitner was a pitcher for the semi-pro team in my home town, the Halstead Cowboys. Blazing fastball. Larry Gura also was on that team, and the No. 3 pitcher when the club played in the National Baseball Congress tournament in Wichita. Between the regular season and the tournament, the Cowboys picked up another pitcher whose name escapes me, as the No. 2 guy.

    Players had “jobs” other than playing ball. Gura was a Red Cross swimming instructor, and taught me swimming lessons.

    Later the Cowboys’ manager moved over to Hutchinson to manage the Hutchinson Broncs. My brother-in-law pitched for them the year they had Barry Bonds, Pete Incaviglia and Rafael Palmeiro in the outfield. Despite that support, he didn’t do so well. If memory serves me well, people were excited about Bonds, mostly because of his dad, Incaviglia was the stud.

    Neat memories.

    Scrolling through the rest of the report, funny that Storm Lake, Iowa, was featured. Larry Biitner went to college there at Buena Vista University.

    Yeah, I remember that “two i’s, two t’s, all thumbs” remark. Probably true. But he was a popular player wherever he went, Senators, Rangers, Cubs, Reds, Expos, et. al.

    A tweet from a Ravens beat writer:

    #Ravens have a new patch on practice jersey — Maryland National Guard — is a new sponsor.

    From link:

    …But even though the Indianapolis Colts wear essentially the same uniform as the 1958 champions, I’m sure the 50th anniversary was celebrated in Baltimore, where there’s a statue of Johnny Unitas outside the stadium, and not in the Hoosier Dome.

    You’re not exactly link with that one, eh?

    I definately recall that NBC Sports font. Here’s the NBC logo history-
    link

    and that ill-fated logo that was first used by a NB public TV station. Oops.

    Re: that Chicago Bears pic with the “CB” logo on the pants — no commentary on the “C” logo on the helmet? The two ends of the C are nearly touching, making the logo look almost like an enclosed eyeball.
    link
    I don’t recall the Bears logo being like this, certainly not like their logo of today, but then again I’m much more of a baseball/hockey historian than football…

    -Jet

    Good point. I’m almost positive that’s link holding the ball in that photo (and Revie Sorey behind him, playing left guard?). Both of those guys were rookies in 1975, which was a couple years after the orange and white C was introduced.

    Dick Butkus’ last season was 1973. Here he is wearing the 2-color logo and it’s looking pretty much identical to the modern version.

    Maybe those were just a bad batch of decals that were used in training camp only? Possibly just for the rookies?

    football cards from that era never had logos on the helmets…
    for any team

    I assume it was some ridiculous licensing nonsense

    Am I wrong, or did that “CB” logo ever make it onto a hat? I for some reason remember that logo/font in the context of a Bears coaches’ or staff cap, maybe with just the “C”, or maybe the “CB”, worn on a sideline at some point in my memory.

    As I understand it, when George Halas was around NOTHING ever went to waste. I used to love watching the Bears sidelines in the early 1980s when they played in cold weather, there would be five different versions of sideline coats and capes worn by players and staff – you could even tell from the TV broadcast which capes and coats were wool, and which were newer polyester, or plastic coated. I used to obsess over getting some of the older wool coats – they had a “texture” that absolutely showed through on TV.

    I wonder if the “CB” logo shown here was a short-lived logo that hung around on re-used shorts, or the odd cap worn on the sideline, etc. God bless George Halas, he was a true NFL hero, but buying new stuff every year or worrying about sideline uniformnity probably was not his standard practice.

    I love how wrinkled and frayed-looking the numbers are on all three players in that KC Chiefs pic…
    link

    -Jet

    I worked part time for A&P as a cashier back when i was in college….i hated the job so much i quit and got a job at blockbuster a year later.

    If I remember correctly, it was a tea company first, right? I could be wrong, it’s been years…before they hired us we had to watch an hour and half long video on the history of the A&P company.

    At some point every kid in my neighborhood was either a Shop Rite, Pathmark or A&P bag boy… shop rite had a cooler logo….

    Whats funny is that EVERY A&P smells exactly the same when you walk into it – they all smell of the Eight O’Clock coffee grinders….which is not a bad thing!

    Our area has not had an A&P for a long time, but earlier this year I walked into one down in NJ, and darn it if it did not have that same great coffee smell immediately upon walking in..

    Agree! Right at the 1:18 mark a good look at Reebok’s U-form oven. Pretty innovative piece of equipment for the shoe world.

    link

    Do we know which ISU is featured in the second bullet point? The jerseys would seem to be blue to my untrained eye, so I would lean towards Indiana State, but that could just be because I’m from Indiana so my regional bias is showing.

    I believe you’re right. I feel like I need to turn in my Boiler fan-card for missing that.

    I believe it is, in fact, the Sycamores.

    Scroll down to the Indiana State section on link. The link sure look like that “1974 – 1977?” helmet to me.

    I love that ’78-’89 design with the S wrapped around the state of Indiana. Looks better than the script Sycamores over the state.

    Hey! You got me. I had no idea that Indiana State wore so many different colors and themes and logos on their helmets over the years. Has EVER a team used so many radically different helmet types? Wow!

    I went to watch the Bay Bombers this weekend and noticed that they wear those fake stirrup socks. If you scroll down on this website you will see pics of them wearing those things.

    link

    Alex Higley | July 27, 2010 at 10:18 am

    “Does anyone know whose team’s jersey this is that was in the ticker today? :

    link….”

    The jersey with the panels applied in such a fashion as to form an ‘N’ is a Nebraska Cornhuskers jersey.

    I sincerely apologize if this has been mentioned (I am not on here a lot anymore cause of the craziness that is the golf season), but has anyone posted pics of the new NFL Sideline hats?

    link

    From the site they say you can wear them flat, or curved.

    link

    Not really liking that option (or the caps in general) but what can you do. I have been waiting and waiting for a nice cap to come out, but I may have to go with the Draft Caps this year. Or maybe I will pick up one of those new Acme Packer caps that just came out.

    From the site:

    “An included “How to Wear” sticker provides instructions so you can shape the flexible brim to wear the hat in a style that suits you.”

    That’s what was wrong with my last hat – it didn’t come with instructions!!!!! That would have saved me so much time and aggravation.

    Speaking of things already mentioned… I may have mentioned this around Christmastime (if so, I don’t mind repeating myself).

    I got one of those awful link as a gift from an in-law. (Believe me, that picture does not come close to capturing how truly bad it looked up close.)

    I feigned enthusiasm, said thanks, put it back in the box and didn’t say another word about it until a couple days later when I was looking for it because I wanted to return it. So I asked my wife if she’d seen it. Her reply “Oh, yeah. I already returned that for you.”

    Don’t I know it…

    And if things go as planned, just wait ’til I report on what she gets me for my 40th birthday.

    Stan Musial and Frank Robinson are two all-time greats who aren’t mentioned as much as they should when discussing the legends of the game. Speaking of Robinson, it’s easy to forget he also played with the Angels and Dodgers.

    Absolutely. Add Clemente and Kaline and you have, easily, the four most-often overlooked superb players of that era. Or any era.

    —Ricko

    i’ll give you kaline for sure

    but really? musial, robinson & clemente are often overlooked?

    not by people who know baseball

    and every single one of them is head over heels above bonds, mcgwire and sosa…a-roid jury is still out

    It’s surprising that Hollywood hasn’t made a movie about Clemente yet, or a modern version of the Jackie Robinson story. Both projects have tremendous potential if done correctly. I think there was a made for TV movie about Robinson in the 80s.

    “not by people who know baseball”

    Was talking about the cumulative sense of conversations and comments over the past 50+ years by both people who know baseball and people who think they know baseball.

    They’d quickly tick off Mays, Mantle, Aaron, Banks, Williams…and then you could almost hear their minds, like, click, followed by, “Oh, and Musial, Frank Robinson, Clemente…”

    That’s what I meant. Lately, those guys have received more and more credit. But it hasn’t always been that way.

    Probably ought to put Yaz in there, too (in terms of players who were active from the late ’50s into the ’70s).

    —Ricko

    The Cowboy uni with the royal blue jerseys, white lettering and ‘charcoal’ colored pants are my favorite out of all they have ever worn.

    Amen. I don’t like the lighter shade they wear now, especially with the blue jerseys.

    Ditto Amen. Why in the world would they ever have changed it? They older pants better matched the helmets, and looked really good with both the dark and white jerseys. By the way, if EVER a team needs to go back to asn earlier era jersey, the Cowboys 1964-1980 Blue jerseys are a marked improvement over the Navy mess that they wear now.

    According to ESPN’s Pat Forde: CFB fashion police update: nothing allowed on eyeblack, but players can now wear their pants over their knees without penalty.

    Kind of uniform-related, in a Kluszewski-sort of way: link

    “Prehistoric man as modern-day baseball player (Prehistoric Man, 1970)” from the Pink Tentacle blog.

    English folks are complaining about having to buy a new soccer jersey every year:
    link

    Uh, last I heard, you don’t HAVE to buy one, as the last five paragraphs thankfully point out. It’s not as if they’re going to boot you out of the stadium for wearing an old jersey with a different sponsor than the current one…or would they?

    English teams getting new shirts every year actually works out well for some fans. At the end of the year these teams have huge sales on the jerseys, and with shipping I was able to buy Everton home and road shirts for 17 or 18 bucks a piece.

    So does that mean I can get an ’02 West Bronwich Albion jersey for five bucks? Heck, I’d get home and away if that’s the case…

    Will “Guess The Game From The scoreboard” be coming back? I kind of miss that on the weekends.

    /goodnight Assassin

    Isn’t it odd how the NFL is completely OK with devaluing pre-Super Bowl Champions? The young NFL fans of today have no clue how nasty the Lions, Browns, etc. of yesteryear were. Always bugged me.

    Especially because of the way the NFL dumped on the AFL early-on. Now nothing counted until the AFL merged into the league? Talk about circling back on yourself.

    But, yeah, the Browns and Lions definitely are the teams getting short-changed. Giants, Colts, Bears, Cowboys and Packers, not so much. The first half of the ’50s just seems to have vanished from the NFL’s consciousness. Even stranger because it was the beginning of the TV era.

    —Ricko

    totally agreed about the lions & browns…but…

    giants=3 SB
    colts=2 SB
    bears=1 SB
    boys=5 SB
    pack=3 SB

    those are wins…not just appearances

    how many wins/appearances for the browns/lions?

    not saying all those pre 1966 seasons shouldn’t count — because indeed they do…but how can you say the “giants, colts, bears, cowboys & packers” not so much getting shortchanged? those teams have 14 super bowl wins and, except for the cowboys, a very lengthy history — i don’t think the NFL celebrates any of their pre super bowl championships (just like they ignore the browns/lions)

    they shouldn’t discount the pre super bowl teams; but the giants, colts, bears and packers were powerhouses both before and after the merger…why should they get shortchanged?

    Was talking about pre-Super Bowl only, because that was the subject. Giants and Colts n’ them get their recognition for their excellence during those years (Lombardi’s Packers played only 2 SBs). Lions and Browns don’t.

    —Ricko

    I am currently reading Mark Kreigel’s (excellent) biography of Joe Namath, and there is a good amount of space spent on the early AFL and how the NFL tried to ignore or denigrate the AFL. Also alot on how the Jets/Giants business rivalry played out (it would be years before they actually played each other), and how in many cases the Giants’ arrogance and stubbornness played right into the Jets/AFL’s hands and helped them to succeed.

    I wonder if a big part of the reason that the early 1950s have been largely ignored by the NFL is that there simply is not alot of film left from the era.

    Alot of the film of those games are lost to history – even 1960s films of games – especially TV broadcasts, were simply erased or thrown away. I have looked for years for a copy of the any of the Saints 1967 inaugural season TV broadcasts, and I am told they simply do not exist.

    At one point, I believe Steve Sabol (NFL FILMS) said that only TWO copies of the TV broadcast of Super Bowl II were said to exist because all others were trashed, taped over, or lost. He stated that for many critical games they go to coaches’ films to help rebuild TV packages shown and sold by their compny, and they occassionally “find” lost footage in their archives.

    So, if they can’t show it, then they can’t sell it. And if they can’t sell it, they ignore it.

    For me, I’d love to watch broadcasts of older games once in awhile. How interesting would that be. To me, it would be very interesting. I would love to watch 1950’s, 1960’s and early 1970s games, particularly good games, in the off-season, rather than watch the two hours of original NFL Network programming shown again and again and again, or yet another mid-season game featuring the 1985 Bears….

    How about showing the full broadcast of the first year Vikings beating the Chicago Bears!

    I don’t think pre-Superbowl championships should be counted the same. They shouldn’t be completely ignored, but they shouldn’t carry the same weight either.

    It just seems dishonest to me to count them the same. Just for example, 3 of the Packers’ “championships” were won before the forward pass existed and there was no championship game, they just had the best winning percentage – the teams didn’t even play the same number of games. There’s no way you can honestly say those have as much meaning as winning the Superbowl in the modern era.

    “dishonest to count them the same”?

    dude…wtf? if you want to point to “pre SB” and “post SB” championships, i have no problem with that, but you’re telling me the colts win over the g-men in the 1958 “greatest game ever played” doesn’t count (the same)? sure, you want to say the pre ww-2 stuff may not count as much, i won’t argue that strongly, but anything from say 1950 onward absolutely counts (although a bears fan might argue differently)

    just because the game evolves doesn’t mean championships won don’t count

    im pretty sure the yankees team in 1998 would have swept the 27 yanks (ok…maybe not)…but does that diminish the 27 yanks?

    I’m not saying the Packers can’t claim to be 12 time Champions, but they need to put an asterisk on it because 9 of those are pre-Superbowl. As far as I’m concerned, being the best team out of 12 is not the same as being the best out of 26, 28 or 32. The eras need to be separated. Any given team is much more likely to win a championship when less teams are involved.

    Do you count AAFC and pre-Superbowl AFL championships at the same level? If someone is a Browns fan, can they really brag about winning 7 Championships vs the Steelers and their 6 Superbowl wins? Can a Buffalo Bills fan claim 2 World Championships without being laughed at mercilessly?

    And any NBA titles from the ’50s are lessened because there were fewer teams, the players weren’t as tall and the key was narrower?

    Those Montreal Canadiens of Rocket Richard? They couldn’t have been all that good. Only six teams then.

    —Ricko

    Credit where credit is due. Since the Saints won the Super Bowl, everyone but the expansion teams have “represented”. NFL championships and Super Bowl appearances are A.O.K.

    Definitely agree, the pre super bowl NFL champs should not be discounted or overlooked, they were the best the league had to offer at the time. I think the reason teams like the Lions and Browns aren’t recognized by younger fans has more to do with the length of time which has transpired since they were NFL champions. The power and talent level of the AFL was improving at the time of the super bowl era, so that’s why super bowl champions have slightly more significance than regular NFL titles. We also have to remember the coaching innovations, mining of small college talent including the African-American player, which nurtured the growth of the AFL. The AFL also outsmarted the NFL by bringing in Paul Brown with Cincinnati. Incredibly, Brown could not get a job in the NFL after getting fired by Art Modell.

    The AFL went from a struggling league filled with NFL castoffs in the early 60s, to having a wildcard playoff team in 1969 dominate a 13-1 NFL powerhouse in super bowl 4. That’s incredible progress, and the AFL was even with the NFL in super bowl wins at the time of the merger.

    Bottom line, older, knowledgeable football fans appreciate the old Lions and Browns teams.

    Oh my. Regarding the pillbox hat, can any Cubs fan actually recall the team wearing that hat in 1976? It’s one of those unknowns discussed on this blog.

    So someone with some puter skills gots to go and be a wiseguy. BTW, my third thought after seeing that was BFBS.

    Man, remember when the Cowboys’ “silver” pants were basically charcoal

    I HATE them Cowboys but that was a sweet looking uniform.

    Josh Lewin and Tom Grieve are now talking about the Rangers powder blue/white combo on FoxSports SW.

    Yeah, they talked about how the Rangers had only worn the combo once but it happened to be when the photographer was at the ballpark. They also mentioned that it was an ugly combo that the designer never meant to be put together; road tops and home pants.

    The Rangers’ announcers were talking in detail about the White Whale from last week–the national TV game with the Rangers against the A’s in Arlington and the Rangers wearing the powder blue tops with the white pants. Tom Grieve was a player on that team and he is the color man on the TV broadcast. Says the players were looking through a yearbook and there were all these pictures of that uni combo. Grieve said he could only remember it being worn once, at home against the A’s and he distinctly noted it being a nationally televised game.

    Funny how chance plays the role in the uniforms we see alot of.

    Just as the Rangers oddity “White Whale” Uni was worn when the photographer was prersent and made it into the Rangers’ press guides/yearbooks, in the past few weeks I have seen a very frequent run of the Staubach Cowboys wearing the rare pre-1981 Blue jerseys in 2-3 different games vs./at the St. Louis Cards. I can tell it is different games because one is on turf, another easily shown to be on grass. Staubach could not have worn that uni at St. Louis more than 4-5 times, and in the past four weeks I have seen those clips all over the TV on different ESPN and NFL Films programming.

    I guess that if the camera catches you there, then that’s what your gonna see over and over and over again, despite the fact that Staubach wore that uni in no more than 3-5% of his games.

    true dat…

    i still say the greatest white whale of all time would be a photo of that gabe paul inspired “reverse pinstripe” proposal for the yankees that marty appel shot down…im guessing that prototype was never photographed and quickly destroyed

    Regarding the Cowboys, I remember a Monday night game at Cleveland when Dallas brought out the pre 1981 jerseys with Staubach at the helm. In 1980, the year after Staubach retired, the Cowboys wore blue jerseys in the NFC title game at Philadelphia. I wonder how many other times Dallas wore those pre 1981 blue jerseys at Philly?

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