In case you missed it during Phil’s weekend coverage, reader Bill Walsh has provided living-color proof that the Cleveland Indians completely lost their minds for at least one game in the mid-1970s. And now Nick Spehar has provided documentation for another Tribe combo I hadn’t been aware of: white jersey with red pants (or at least I assume the pants are red, since we still don’t have proof that the Indians ever had navy pants during this period), which they wore on 9/30/76. Further evidence that the mid-’70s Indians may be gaining on the bumblebee-era Pirates in the mix-and-match sweepstakes.
All of which makes a good introduction to coverage of my trip to Cleveland last week. I was there to cover the National Sports Collectors Convention, which was a hoot. Who knew, for example, that Tulsa had a hockey team way back in the day? I’ll have a full report on the National later this week over on Page 2, and probably some bonus coverage here, but for now let’s recap the proceedings at the Cleveland Uni Watch party, which took place last Thursday.
• My trip to Clevo wouldn’t have been possible if not for Mike Hersh, who first suggested that I cover the National (and who, as you may recall, was profiled on the site last year). Mike’s parents are memorabilia dealers and his mom helped run the convention, so he arranged to get me full access, plus he introduced me to plenty of good people and even let me share his hotel room. He’s a Red Sox fan, so I still can’t figure out why he wore a Yankees jersey to the party. He kept saying, “It’s from the Florida Yankees!” or something like that (I think he meant it was from spring training), but that’s no excuse. Shouldn’t anything with a Yanks logo on it burn the flesh of a Bosox fan?
• Two other people made my time in Cleveland super-enjoyable, and that would be former Uni Watch intern Vince Grzegorek and his lovely girlfriend Alexis. This was only the second time Vince and I had met in person, and we had a blast — bowling, shooting pool, going out for ribs, hot dogs, and apple fritters as big as my head, etc., plus he served as my assistant at the National. And it was great to finally meet Alexis, who I’d heard about for years and turned out to be a total sweetheart (plus she knows what to do when there’s a camera nearby). The two of them drove me all over town and turned a work trip into a mini-vacation. Thanks so much, you two — hope to see you both in NYC soon.
• Jim Vilk has been very active on the site lately, so it was a treat to meet him in person. He wore a shirt with an impressively obscure logo (that team is now this team), told great stories about working as a vendor at the Richfield Coliseum, and brought along lots of cool stuff for show and tell, including a Pittsburgh Spirit jersey and souvenir cup and a Cavs popcorn cup (note the Coliseum logo on the other side). Plus he also sent me home with a bunch of gifts culled from his collection, including a Cubs LP, several football books, a pair of CFL mags, and Spirit mag. Jim, you’re too kind — thanks for the presents, and for all the great material you’ve been contributing to the site lately.
• Here’s Matt King and his lovely wife Amy, who were decked out in their Cleveland finery. Matt won’t let me show you what was on the backs of their jerseys, but let’s just say I thought it was cool.
• This is Chuck Ryals, whose Tokyo Giants jersey is more intriguing than it appears at first glance. Look closely and you’ll see that it has a faux placket — it’s actually a pullover with non-functional buttons.
• Marc Swanson was the only attendee who had the balls to wear normal clothing to the party. He brought along those AFL-style uni concepts that I linked to in yesterday’s Ticker.
• Brian Geiger‘s Bad News Bears jersey drew lots of approving comments (everyone loves the back, but I also like the sleeve patch). But the real prize was on his head, where he wore a phantom Seahawks championship cap.
• Brian’s cap was of particular interest to longtime Uni Watch stalwart Doug Keklak, who roots for the team that actually won Super Bowl XL. Doug lives in Pittsburgh but was in Cleveland for work, and it was great to see him again. When are you gonna visit NYC, Dougie?
• Dan Smith wore a cool FDNY hockey jersey, complete with a nifty patch, along with a 1st U.S. Infantry cap. He gets bonus points for bringing along his Uni Watch membership card.
• Joe Dreyfuss recently got his degree in sports management at Rice, where he was a member of the Autry Army. If you don’t know what that means (I didn’t), look at the third graf here.
• Best T-shirt of the night was worn by Pete Pattakos. He talked so fast, and so much, that he made everyone’s head spin (a trait that no doubt serves him well in his day job), but I’ll cut him some slack cuz he writes for a decent blog.
• Second-best T-shirt of the night: this Columbus Clippers job worn by Sean Spitzer. I didn’t dare ask whether it was truly old and beat-up or a new “distressed” design, so just let me go on thinking that it was the former, okay?
• Vince leaned over to me at one point and said, “I know that guy sitting at that table over there. He has Bernie Kosar’s uniform number tattooed on his hand.” The guy’s name was Dana Depew, and sure enough — look!
One last Cleveland note: One of the people at the party (I won’t say who because he asked to stay anonymous) told me the following:
When you go to the airport to fly home, be sure to look for a plane parked right near the airport entrance. Its registration number is N448PC, and you’ll see it right as you turn into the airport from Route 237. That’s Lenny Dykstra’s repossessed plane.
As you can see, this person even drew me a helpful diagram. Unfortunately, I totally forgot about the whole thing until I discovered the diagram in my wallet when I got home, so I didn’t see (or even look for) the plane. One of you Clevelanders, please get us some photos. Thanks.
You say toe-may-toe”¦: This is “Debate Week” on Page 2. My contribution is up today, as DJ Gallo and I debate the pros and cons of fantasy sports.
Chat Update: My ESPN live chat on Friday will be at 1pm eastern. Additional details to follow later in the week.
Uni Watch News Ticker: Here’s the Giants’ Timex ad patch. But don’t expect to see Eli wearing it for pre- or post-workout interviews, which is the first of what will no doubt be a slew of idiotic branding-conflict situations brought up by the new uni ads. ”¦ And here’s the Colts’ huge ad for the Indiana Farm Bureau. Jesus! ”¦ Speaking of NFL training camps, Terrell Suggs wore this yesterday (with thanks to Ryan Connelly). ”¦ Meanwhile, several readers have noted that the Bills are wearing throwback helmets in training camp. ”¦ Bit of a snafu in the Brewers’ clubhouse, where Claudio Vargas’s NOB was straight instead of arched (with thanks to Nate Neumann). ”¦ Check out this old solid-orange Gulf baseball uni! ”¦ Lots of sports logo tattoos on display here (with thanks to Mark Kaplowitz). ”¦ I think this has already been linked on the site, but just in case. ”¦ Odd scene last night in Pawtucket, as Brian Anderson had 32 on his back and 44 on his helmet and teammate Chris Duncan had the reverse. You’d think they just swapped helmets, no biggie, but the Pawsox roster lists them with the helmet numbers. Seems unlikely that they swapped jerseys (Duncan is three inches taller and 15 pounds heavier), so maybe they swapped uni numbers and the roster hasn’t been updated (good spot by AJ Chalifour). ”¦ The Chargers, Bengals, and Texans have all posted their jersey schedules for the upcoming season. ”¦ There’s something really weird weird about seeing Junior Seau in Dodgers BP attire (with thanks to Alan Borock). ”¦ A team competing in the Iowa State Baseball Tournament had to borrow helmets from another team when their equipment bag got lost in transit (with thanks to Jesse Gavin). ”¦ Also from Jesse: One of the teams in that Iowa tourney kept track of their own pitcher’s strikeout count with a dugout K corner, which doesn’t seem like the classiest move. Another team had white underbills. And whose bright idea was it to schedule a red-on-red game?
Bills typically “break in” the throwback helmets a few times during camp. Usually the week leading up to the preseason game in which they will wear them, in this case, the Hall of Fame Game vs. the Titans/Oilers this weekend. Anyone else notice the team names are all wrong on the Texans’ jersey schedule??
The Cleveland Indians had some questionable color scheme uniform decisions during that mid 70s era, they were among the worst teams in baseball during that time. The only aspect of that uni I liked was the font style on the jersey, it was unique, and they should have retained it.
He’s not sure of the date on that photo
Since the photo caption says, “The Tribe lost their final home game of the season,” I’ll venture to guess that the date can be easily determined.
Texans going red-over-red again, I see.
Does NO ONE in that organization have any taste at all?
Just never been a fan of fire hydrant look, sorry. Not in football, anyway. In a sport that so resolutely seems to think players should dress like video game commandos, why come out looking like the Rockettes in “Christmas at Radio City”?
—Rick
Answering my own point – September 30, 1976
[quote comment=”343736″]Texans going red-over-red again, I see.
Does NO ONE in that organization have any taste at all?
Just never been a fan of fire hydrant look, sorry. Not in football, anyway. In a sport that so resolutely seems to think players should dress like video game commandos, why come out looking like the Rockettes in “Christmas at Radio City”?
—Rick[/quote]
They have taste, but only for one color: green.
[quote comment=”343735″]He’s not sure of the date on that photo
Since the photo caption says, “The Tribe lost their final home game of the season,” I’ll venture to guess that the date can be easily determined.[/quote]
Sorry, missed that — now fixed.
Thank for finding a photo of the Indians wearing the white over red combo. If you go back to the comments section from July 27 and look at comment 139, you’ll see why I’m feeling good about the odds that maybe I didn’t eliminate all of my brain cells in college.
The Yomiuri Giants uniform that you see is common for the “replica” uniforms that NPB had sold in the past. If you look at my photo here it is also a pullover with fake buttons.
link
Only recently have teams been selling the real uniform, which is significantly more expense than these pullovers. However, if your team has pullovers, you are kind of screwed, like the Yokohama Bay Stars.
For the Bay Stars a real pull over is 31,500 yen ($368), while a replica is 12,000 yen ($126).
Most people will not pay for the real one. Even real MLB uniforms with names on the back aren’t that expensive.
[quote comment=”343740″]Thank for finding a photo of the Indians wearing the white over red combo. If you go back to the comments section from July 27 and look at comment 139, you’ll see why I’m feeling good about the odds that maybe I didn’t eliminate all of my brain cells in college.[/quote]
great memory, matt
you’ve turned this into (finding various caveman combinations) a semi-quest, at least for me…and it all started with ricko’s “faulty” memory and your grainy b&w photo of fosse…
maybe the “all blue” monochrome will never surface, but now we have photographic evidence of the blue over red and now white over red…awesome
“Bit of a snafu in the Brewers’ clubhouse, where Claudio Vargas’s NOB was straight instead of arched (with thanks to Nate Neumann)”
If they used nameplates that would be a non issue! ;)
PS – The drop shadow on that G is enormous as well!
Great job on the Indians’ unis. You guys are outstanding.
It’d be a great project if someone went through the archives of the Caveman Era (1974-77?) and documented all the possible combinations. Paul’s right — they’re catching up to the Pirates.
Question: Did they wear white or grey much at all in that era, or was it mostly combinations of blue and red? The Okkonen book doesn’t have them wearing white or grey from 1975-77 at all (and I think the baseball cards from that era track the same way, or at least mine do), but of course we now know otherwise.
[quote comment=”343744″]Great job on the Indians’ unis. You guys are outstanding.
It’d be a great project if someone went through the archives of the Caveman Era (1974-77?) and documented all the possible combinations. Paul’s right — they’re catching up to the Pirates.
Question: Did they wear white or grey much at all in that era, or was it mostly combinations of blue and red? The Okkonen book doesn’t have them wearing white or grey from 1975-77 at all (and I think the baseball cards from that era track the same way, or at least mine do), but of course we now know otherwise.[/quote]
[quote comment=”343745″][quote comment=”343744″]Great job on the Indians’ unis. You guys are outstanding.
It’d be a great project if someone went through the archives of the Caveman Era (1974-77?) and documented all the possible combinations. Paul’s right — they’re catching up to the Pirates.
Question: Did they wear white or grey much at all in that era, or was it mostly combinations of blue and red? The Okkonen book doesn’t have them wearing white or grey from 1975-77 at all (and I think the baseball cards from that era track the same way, or at least mine do), but of course we now know otherwise.[/quote][/quote]
I mean all-white or all-grey, of course.
And I don’t think we’ll find blue pants, but why would they have white jerseys and pants, and red jerseys and pants, but blue jerseys without blue pants? Makes sense that, like the Pirates, they would have had three full color combinations (white, blue, red). But I don’t think they did. Strange.
thanks to cnn for the following:
bills using both helmets: link
cowboys practice in silver pants (and jerseys do not resemble game jersey): link
lions have to “earn” logo: link
49ers giving peek of uni and qb wears grey: link
while buc qbs don yellow: link
Remember the discussion of Jason Giambi’s helmet decal?
I only really watched the 9th inning of last night’s A’s-Rangers game but all seven A’s who appeared in that inning seemed to have the cap style A’s logo on their helmets.
link
link
Looks like the team has switched away from having different logos for caps and helmets
[quote comment=”343736″]Texans going red-over-red again, I see.
Does NO ONE in that organization have any taste at all?
Just never been a fan of fire hydrant look, sorry. Not in football, anyway. In a sport that so resolutely seems to think players should dress like video game commandos, why come out looking like the Rockettes in “Christmas at Radio City”?
—Rick[/quote]
Houston always wears that stupid battle-red crap at home against Jacksonville. They save it for division games. They only get 2 chances to wear it, so this year it’s Jax and Indy. Titans fans are spared for 2009.
[quote comment=”343749″]Remember the discussion of Jason Giambi’s helmet decal?
I only really watched the 9th inning of last night’s A’s-Rangers game but all seven A’s who appeared in that inning seemed to have the cap style A’s logo on their helmets.
link
link
Looks like the team has switched away from having different logos for caps and helmets[/quote]
One of the most underrated uniforms and underrated franchises in sports. Won nine divisional championships during the four-division era (1969-93, or 25 years), the most of any team. Four World Series championships and six A.L. pennants. That’s hard to beat.
[quote] Four World Series championships and six A.L. pennants. That’s hard to beat.[/quote]
but you could tie — if you’re the yankees, circa 1996-2003 – 4 WS, 6 AL pennants (granted, that’s the “six division” era, but doesn’t make getting to the WS any easier, in fact, harder) … that’s in a eight year span…and they won the AL east ’96, ’98, ’99, ’00, ’01, ’02, ’03, ’04, ’05 & ’06 – 10 division championships in 11 years
damn…no wonder everyone hates the yankees
[quote comment=”343741″]The Yomiuri Giants uniform that you see is common for the “replica” uniforms that NPB had sold in the past. If you look at my photo here it is also a pullover with fake buttons.
link
Only recently have teams been selling the real uniform, which is significantly more expense than these pullovers. However, if your team has pullovers, you are kind of screwed, like the Yokohama Bay Stars.
For the Bay Stars a real pull over is 31,500 yen ($368), while a replica is 12,000 yen ($126).
Most people will not pay for the real one. Even real MLB uniforms with names on the back aren’t that expensive.[/quote]
Under Armour makes a game uniform with the faux placket. The top 2 buttons function, like a henley, but the other buttons are merely aesthetic.
link
Auburn wears these on occasion.
link
You can see the seam just above the lettering of the orange jersey where the functional buttons stop.
link
[quote comment=”343751″][quote comment=”343749″]Remember the discussion of Jason Giambi’s helmet decal?
I only really watched the 9th inning of last night’s A’s-Rangers game but all seven A’s who appeared in that inning seemed to have the cap style A’s logo on their helmets.
link
link
Looks like the team has switched away from having different logos for caps and helmets[/quote]
One of the most underrated uniforms and underrated franchises in sports. Won nine divisional championships during the four-division era (1969-93, or 25 years), the most of any team. Four World Series championships and six A.L. pennants. That’s hard to beat.[/quote]
Yeah, the A’s don’t get much love. There was a time earlier in the decade when even Joe Morgan had to mix in at least one positive comment about them but overall they’ve never gotten a ton of press.
[quote comment=”343748″]thanks to cnn for the following:
bills using both helmets: link
cowboys practice in silver pants (and jerseys do not resemble game jersey): link
lions have to “earn” logo: link
49ers giving peek of uni and qb wears grey: link
while buc qbs don yellow: link
The helmet worn by the guy just to the left of the QB’s face has a great retro feel to it:
link
Reminds me of this:
link
Or this:
link
[quote comment=”343752″][quote] Four World Series championships and six A.L. pennants. That’s hard to beat.[/quote]
but you could tie — if you’re the yankees, circa 1996-2003 – 4 WS, 6 AL pennants (granted, that’s the “six division” era, but doesn’t make getting to the WS any easier, in fact, harder) … that’s in a eight year span…and they won the AL east ’96, ’98, ’99, ’00, ’01, ’02, ’03, ’04, ’05 & ’06 – 10 division championships in 11 years
damn…no wonder everyone hates the yankees[/quote]
Definitely, you’re right about the Yankes. Not saying the A’s are the best. Just saying that the A’s have one of the best histories in major league baseball since the division era started. Plus they’ve been good in three different eras (1970s, late 1980s/early 1990s, early 2000s). Clearly the Yanks got the best of them in the playoffs (1981, 2000, 2001).
The FDNY jersey worn by Dan Smith got a lot of play in Denis Leary’s TV show called “Rescue Me”.
Leary is a huge supporter of the fire and rescue guys, and was on-hand after the link where six firefighters lost their lives. The Worcester IceCats, who were the AHL team in town, wore link every season after that to remember the fallen men. link whenever he can when he plays in charity games to show his support of the bravest men on the planet. As an example, he link when he was teaching Ray about hockey.
And, for two different reasons, both the Yanks and the A’s have made great contributions to baseball uniforms. Love the Yanks’ pinstripes, but love the A’s colorful uniform history as well. Green and gold is an increasingly rare combination, which is strange because it’s so good. The A’s had my favorite uniforms as a kid, though now I tend to prefer more traditional unis.
Can someone tell me the Seahawks practice jersey sponsor (if they have one)? I’m assuming its Virginia Mason.
[quote comment=”343752″] (granted, that’s the “six division” era, but doesn’t make getting to the WS any easier, in fact, harder)[/quote]
How does it make it harder- doesn’t one team still make it every year?
[quote comment=”343758″]The FDNY jersey worn by Dan Smith got a lot of play in Denis Leary’s TV show called “Rescue Me”.
Leary is a huge supporter of the fire and rescue guys, and was on-hand after the link where six firefighters lost their lives. The Worcester IceCats, who were the AHL team in town, wore link every season after that to remember the fallen men. link whenever he can when he plays in charity games to show his support of the bravest men on the planet. As an example, he link when he was teaching Ray about hockey.[/quote]
I should have added that Leary’s cousin and a childhood friend were two of the men who never made it out of the six who lost their lives in the blaze. This is why it is so important to him.
in the world of hypotheticals, a’s 72-74 teams versus yankees 98-00 teams
(last two teams to win 3 straight WS’s)
that might have been fun to watch
[quote comment=”343763″]in the world of hypotheticals, a’s 72-74 teams versus yankees 98-00 teams
(last two teams to win 3 straight WS’s)
that might have been fun to watch[/quote]
Yes, a great matchup. So much talent on those A’s teams, though, that I’d have to give the A’s the nod.
Are the A’s moving to a new ball park anytime soon? That would really help the franchise, though there is a lot of history at the park they play in now (both for football and baseball).
[quote comment=”343758″]The FDNY jersey worn by Dan Smith got a lot of play in Denis Leary’s TV show called “Rescue Me”.[/quote]
Best show on television. (In my warped opinion.)
[quote comment=”343765″][quote comment=”343758″]The FDNY jersey worn by Dan Smith got a lot of play in Denis Leary’s TV show called “Rescue Me”.[/quote]
Best show on television. (In my warped opinion.)[/quote]
Gotta agree that it is certainly one of the best. Highly underrated show, Al. Good call.
Nice pegs on the broad sporting the gray “I’m calling it Shea” shirt behind Burkhardt during his third-inning spot last night.
[quote comment=”343761″][quote comment=”343752″] (granted, that’s the “six division” era, but doesn’t make getting to the WS any easier, in fact, harder)[/quote]
How does it make it harder- doesn’t one team still make it every year?[/quote]
one extra round of playoffs
I love the old Tulsa Oilers jersey at the museum. It sure beats the hell out of what we are subjected to today.
link
Uggh!
[quote comment=”343767″]Nice pegs on the broad sporting the gray “I’m calling it Shea” shirt behind Burkhardt during his third-inning spot last night.[/quote]
Pics?
[quote comment=”343768″][quote comment=”343761″][quote comment=”343752″] (granted, that’s the “six division” era, but doesn’t make getting to the WS any easier, in fact, harder)[/quote]
How does it make it harder- doesn’t one team still make it every year?[/quote]
one extra round of playoffs[/quote]
Agreed. Many a division champion has gone down in the playoffs because of the extra round when otherwise they would have probably made the World Series.
Anyone else notice in the Texans jersey schedule that the helmets and some other information as to which team the Texans are playing are not correct?
[quote comment=”343770″][quote comment=”343767″]Nice pegs on the broad sporting the gray “I’m calling it Shea” shirt behind Burkhardt during his third-inning spot last night.[/quote]
Pics?[/quote]
Sorry, should have caveated my original post that I had no photographic evidence to lend — I was feeding Jr. at the time. I instantly assumed one of the Los Mess fans on the board vidcapped it. (I was only watching SNY b/c the Yanks were off…)
[quote comment=”343760″]Can someone tell me the Seahawks practice jersey sponsor (if they have one)? I’m assuming its Virginia Mason.[/quote]
Nope, they’re not wearing one.
[quote comment=”343772″]Anyone else notice in the Texans jersey schedule that the helmets and some other information as to which team the Texans are playing are not correct?[/quote]
i think the focus was on the opponent and not matching the uni.
[quote comment=”343764″][quote comment=”343763″]in the world of hypotheticals, a’s 72-74 teams versus yankees 98-00 teams
(last two teams to win 3 straight WS’s)
that might have been fun to watch[/quote]
Yes, a great matchup. So much talent on those A’s teams, though, that I’d have to give the A’s the nod.
Are the A’s moving to a new ball park anytime soon? That would really help the franchise, though there is a lot of history at the park they play in now (both for football and baseball).[/quote]
New park? link
[quote comment=”343755″][quote comment=”343748″]thanks to cnn for the following:
bills using both helmets: link
cowboys practice in silver pants (and jerseys do not resemble game jersey): link
lions have to “earn” logo: link
49ers giving peek of uni and qb wears grey: link
while buc qbs don yellow: link
The helmet worn by the guy just to the left of the QB’s face has a great retro feel to it:
link
Reminds me of this:
link
Yea, it’s all in the mask. It’s funny, because the helmet you referred to(just to the left of the qb) is the new Hi Tech Riddell Speed, and that ols school facemask, that Lester Hayes wore, is a rare Riddell mask. Funny, in that Riddell didn’t make too many facemasks, Schutt rules in that department.
[quote comment=”343762″][quote comment=”343758″]The FDNY jersey worn by Dan Smith got a lot of play in Denis Leary’s TV show called “Rescue Me”.
Leary is a huge supporter of the fire and rescue guys, and was on-hand after the link where six firefighters lost their lives. The Worcester IceCats, who were the AHL team in town, wore link every season after that to remember the fallen men. link whenever he can when he plays in charity games to show his support of the bravest men on the planet. As an example, he link when he was teaching Ray about hockey.[/quote]
I should have added that Leary’s cousin and a childhood friend were two of the men who never made it out of the six who lost their lives in the blaze. This is why it is so important to him.[/quote]
How old is that of Leary with the helmet? Was Michael J Fox playing recently? That would be a story neh?
[quote comment=”343777″][quote comment=”343764″][quote comment=”343763″]in the world of hypotheticals, a’s 72-74 teams versus yankees 98-00 teams
(last two teams to win 3 straight WS’s)
that might have been fun to watch[/quote]
Yes, a great matchup. So much talent on those A’s teams, though, that I’d have to give the A’s the nod.
Are the A’s moving to a new ball park anytime soon? That would really help the franchise, though there is a lot of history at the park they play in now (both for football and baseball).[/quote]
New park? link[/quote]
No new park and the owner seems dead set on leaving Oakland. He says the idea of a stadium in Oakland is a dead issue because attendance is down. Well, your first move as owner was to announce that you plan to leave Oakland for Fremont and your team is terrible. What did you think that would do to attendance?
[quote comment=”343779″][quote comment=”343755″][quote comment=”343748″]thanks to cnn for the following:
bills using both helmets: link
cowboys practice in silver pants (and jerseys do not resemble game jersey): link
lions have to “earn” logo: link
49ers giving peek of uni and qb wears grey: link
while buc qbs don yellow: link
The helmet worn by the guy just to the left of the QB’s face has a great retro feel to it:
link
Reminds me of this:
link
Yea, it’s all in the mask. It’s funny, because the helmet you referred to(just to the left of the qb) is the new Hi Tech Riddell Speed, and that ols school facemask, that Lester Hayes wore, is a rare Riddell mask. Funny, in that Riddell didn’t make too many facemasks, Schutt rules in that department.[/quote]
I’m assuming this could be another Riddell mask fitted especially for the Riddell Speed helmet. The thing that’s odd is that this mask has the bar going down the middle(between the eyes), which is really old school, and most players today don’t wear that style. Some, if not most, complain that it makes them cross eyed, or, hinders vision in general.
[quote comment=”343780″][quote comment=”343762″][quote comment=”343758″]The FDNY jersey worn by Dan Smith got a lot of play in Denis Leary’s TV show called “Rescue Me”.
Leary is a huge supporter of the fire and rescue guys, and was on-hand after the link where six firefighters lost their lives. The Worcester IceCats, who were the AHL team in town, wore link every season after that to remember the fallen men. link whenever he can when he plays in charity games to show his support of the bravest men on the planet. As an example, he link when he was teaching Ray about hockey.[/quote]
I should have added that Leary’s cousin and a childhood friend were two of the men who never made it out of the six who lost their lives in the blaze. This is why it is so important to him.[/quote]
How old is that of Leary with the helmet? Was Michael J Fox playing recently? That would be a story neh?[/quote]
According to the guy’s website, it was 2004. link.
[quote comment=”343763″]in the world of hypotheticals, a’s 72-74 teams versus yankees 98-00 teams
(last two teams to win 3 straight WS’s)
that might have been fun to watch[/quote]
Very enjoyable read re: that A’s dynasty –>
link
Just noticed that there is an updated version –>
link
[quote comment=”343770″][quote comment=”343767″]Nice pegs on the broad sporting the gray “I’m calling it Shea” shirt behind Burkhardt during his third-inning spot last night.[/quote]
Pics?[/quote]
Done:
link
link
This is decidedly un-uni related, but here goes.
This:
link
Should go here:
link
Paul–I somehow think if you don’t already know the HDMA, then you have some serious clicking around to do today. Sorry all. Back to unis.
The Texans’ uniform schedule looks screwy because the helmets reflect the schedule from last year (to compare, this year’s last four opponents are Seattle, St. Louis, Miami and New England, as the headers show, but the helmets show 2008’s last four opponents: Green Bay, Tennessee, Oakland and Chicago).
[quote comment=”343745″][quote comment=”343744″]Great job on the Indians’ unis. You guys are outstanding.
It’d be a great project if someone went through the archives of the Caveman Era (1974-77?) and documented all the possible combinations. Paul’s right — they’re catching up to the Pirates.
Question: Did they wear white or grey much at all in that era, or was it mostly combinations of blue and red? The Okkonen book doesn’t have them wearing white or grey from 1975-77 at all (and I think the baseball cards from that era track the same way, or at least mine do), but of course we now know otherwise.[/quote][/quote]
They did not have grays from ’75-’77, they did have all whites. They rarely wore the all whites, but when they did it was with the red shoes, the infamous “ruby slippers,” a very cool combination that returned for a short while in the 90s, albeit with different uniforms.
Speaking of shoes: Were the A’s the first team to wear white shoes? Notice how they put them in their logo.
link
Texans are at the Dolphins on December 27th and the Texans are going to be wearing white? I’m assuming the Dolphins are going to be wearing alternate orange tops, because they almost NEVER wear the aqua tops at home. I think you can count on one hand the instances that they have worn aqua tops at home in the last decade……
link
[quote comment=”343789″]Speaking of shoes: Were the A’s the first team to wear white shoes? Notice how they put them in their logo.
link
yep
1967 KC A’s
[quote comment=”343784″][quote comment=”343763″]in the world of hypotheticals, a’s 72-74 teams versus yankees 98-00 teams
(last two teams to win 3 straight WS’s)
that might have been fun to watch[/quote]
Very enjoyable read re: that A’s dynasty –>
link
Just noticed that there is an updated version –>
link
I got the first edition of that book back in ’99. It is a good read. He had to rename it after the Yankees won 4 in 5 years.
If you want a history that spans more time check out Glenn Dickey’s “Champions.” I don’t think it’s as well written but it covers the three great eras of Oakland A’s baseball.
so, i was just takin’ my smoke break and i noticed this license plate on a yellow bug in the parking lot…
pretty hard to fathom that the last time the mets hosted the ASG was ’64 (fyos)…but i guess that means
citifieldnew shea is due2011 is in phoenix, look for boston to get 2012 (for the 100th anniversary of the fens), and maybe new shea in 2013…but i’ve also heard selig was gonna give 2012 to the royals, and look for the twinkies to get in on this too
and you have wrigley wanting 2014 for their 100th…
[quote comment=”343743″]”Bit of a snafu in the Brewers’ clubhouse, where Claudio Vargas’s NOB was straight instead of arched (with thanks to Nate Neumann)”
If they used nameplates that would be a non issue! ;)
PS – The drop shadow on that G is enormous as well![/quote]
It was also straight on the gray road jerseys when they were in San Diego – probably the case of having to get a rush job on the road thanks to the trade.
Speaking of missing equipment, when I work as the SID at a community college in Michigan, the softball team was in the Regional Tournament. I was in charge of stats for the whole tournament so I drove seperate from the team. The team and I left the hotel at the same time for the first game of the day. So I get to the park and get my computer set up and talk to the other scorekeepers and tournament officals. After about 25 minutes I notice the team still isn’t there. About 15 minutes later, they pull in. I go up to the coach and ask where they had been. He tells me they have been to the local sporting goods store because the catcher left the bag with the catcher’s gear in the trunk of her car back at school, about 2 1/2 hours away.
[quote comment=”343794″]so, i was just takin’ my smoke break and i noticed link on a yellow bug in the parking lot…
pretty hard to fathom that the last time the mets hosted the ASG was ’64 (fyos)…but i guess that means
citifieldnew shea is due2011 is in phoenix, look for boston to get 2012 (for the 100th anniversary of the fens), and maybe new shea in 2013…but i’ve also heard selig was gonna give 2012 to the royals, and look for the twinkies to get in on this too
and you have wrigley wanting 2014 for their 100th…[/quote]
Well… NY just hosted an ASG (I know I know different team) and it took MLB 14 years to give phoenix one (although that probably has more to do with 115 degree temps than anything) so I think that is your precedent, 2022 or bust!
[quote comment=”343794″]so, i was just takin’ my smoke break and i noticed link on a yellow bug in the parking lot…
pretty hard to fathom that the last time the mets hosted the ASG was ’64 (fyos)…but i guess that means
citifieldnew shea is due2011 is in phoenix, look for boston to get 2012 (for the 100th anniversary of the fens), and maybe new shea in 2013…but i’ve also heard selig was gonna give 2012 to the royals, and look for the twinkies to get in on this too
and you have wrigley wanting 2014 for their 100th…[/quote]
I believe the ASG rotation is:
2010 Los Angeles Angels
2011 Arizona Diamondbacks
2012 Kansas City Royals
2013 New York Mets
[quote comment=”343796″]Speaking of missing equipment, when I work as the SID at a community college in Michigan, the softball team was in the Regional Tournament. I was in charge of stats for the whole tournament so I drove seperate from the team. The team and I left the hotel at the same time for the first game of the day. So I get to the park and get my computer set up and talk to the other scorekeepers and tournament officals. After about 25 minutes I notice the team still isn’t there. About 15 minutes later, they pull in. I go up to the coach and ask where they had been. He tells me they have been to the local sporting goods store because the catcher left the bag with the catcher’s gear in the trunk of her car back at school, about 2 1/2 hours away.[/quote]
Our equipment guy once left our jerseys at home for a road game. We played the first half in t-shirts. Looked like crap, didn’t play well.
[quote comment=”343797″][quote comment=”343794″]so, i was just takin’ my smoke break and i noticed link on a yellow bug in the parking lot…
pretty hard to fathom that the last time the mets hosted the ASG was ’64 (fyos)…but i guess that means
citifieldnew shea is due2011 is in phoenix, look for boston to get 2012 (for the 100th anniversary of the fens), and maybe new shea in 2013…but i’ve also heard selig was gonna give 2012 to the royals, and look for the twinkies to get in on this too
and you have wrigley wanting 2014 for their 100th…[/quote]
Well… NY just hosted an ASG (I know I know different team) and it took MLB 14 years to give phoenix one (although that probably has more to do with 115 degree temps than anything) so I think that is your precedent, 2022 or bust![/quote]
then explain to me how the astros (just as one example) have had THREE games since the mets last had one? (pittsburgh has also hosted three since the mets last hosted one)…many teams have had two hostings, and chicago (two different teams) has hosted three
the mets are most CERTAINLY NOT the yankees, so the “new york got one in 08” argument does not apply
im not trying to take away from your concern that the d-backs took too long to get a hosting…i’d agree with you there — you have a great park and i’d love to party in that pool
but don’t tell me the mets aren’t WAAAAAYYYY overdue and don’t give me the “NYC” argument (since even if you count the yankees hosting, they had TWO total since the mets last hosted), so it’s not like NYC is getting ASG goodness at the expense of other cities
so eff 2022 ;)
[quote comment=”343790″]Texans are at the Dolphins on December 27th and the Texans are going to be wearing white? I’m assuming the Dolphins are going to be wearing alternate orange tops, because they almost NEVER wear the aqua tops at home. I think you can count on one hand the instances that they have worn aqua tops at home in the last decade……[/quote]
Don’t the Fins normally wear aqua for night games at home? (I know, the Texans game is a day game)…
The absolute best part of that Indians picture is the caption: “…Rick Manning holds his face in pain after being tagged right square in the mouth…”
[quote comment=”343800″][quote comment=”343797″][quote comment=”343794″]so, i was just takin’ my smoke break and i noticed link on a yellow bug in the parking lot…
pretty hard to fathom that the last time the mets hosted the ASG was ’64 (fyos)…but i guess that means
citifieldnew shea is due2011 is in phoenix, look for boston to get 2012 (for the 100th anniversary of the fens), and maybe new shea in 2013…but i’ve also heard selig was gonna give 2012 to the royals, and look for the twinkies to get in on this too
and you have wrigley wanting 2014 for their 100th…[/quote]
Well… NY just hosted an ASG (I know I know different team) and it took MLB 14 years to give phoenix one (although that probably has more to do with 115 degree temps than anything) so I think that is your precedent, 2022 or bust![/quote]
then explain to me how the link (just as one example) have had THREE games since the mets last had one? (pittsburgh has also hosted three since the mets last hosted one)…many teams have had two hostings, and chicago (two different teams) has hosted three
the mets are most CERTAINLY NOT the yankees, so the “new york got one in 08” argument does not apply
im not trying to take away from your concern that the d-backs took too long to get a hosting…i’d agree with you there — you have a great park and i’d love to party in that pool
but don’t tell me the mets aren’t WAAAAAYYYY overdue and don’t give me the “NYC” argument (since even if you count the yankees hosting, they had TWO total since the mets last hosted), so it’s not like NYC is getting ASG goodness at the expense of other cities
so eff 2022 ;)[/quote]
*tongue planted firmly in cheek*
[quote comment=”343800″][quote comment=”343797″][quote comment=”343794″]so, i was just takin’ my smoke break and i noticed link on a yellow bug in the parking lot…
pretty hard to fathom that the last time the mets hosted the ASG was ’64 (fyos)…but i guess that means
citifieldnew shea is due2011 is in phoenix, look for boston to get 2012 (for the 100th anniversary of the fens), and maybe new shea in 2013…but i’ve also heard selig was gonna give 2012 to the royals, and look for the twinkies to get in on this too
and you have wrigley wanting 2014 for their 100th…[/quote]
Well… NY just hosted an ASG (I know I know different team) and it took MLB 14 years to give phoenix one (although that probably has more to do with 115 degree temps than anything) so I think that is your precedent, 2022 or bust![/quote]
then explain to me how the astros (just as one example) have had THREE games since the mets last had one? (pittsburgh has also hosted three since the mets last hosted one)…many teams have had two hostings, and chicago (two different teams) has hosted three
the mets are most CERTAINLY NOT the yankees, so the “new york got one in 08” argument does not apply
im not trying to take away from your concern that the d-backs took too long to get a hosting…i’d agree with you there — you have a great park and i’d love to party in that pool
but don’t tell me the mets aren’t WAAAAAYYYY overdue and don’t give me the “NYC” argument (since even if you count the yankees hosting, they had TWO total since the mets last hosted), so it’s not like NYC is getting ASG goodness at the expense of other cities
so eff 2022 ;)[/quote]
The Mets never got another ASG at Shea because ownership never wanted one. Marty Noble (then of Newsday, now of MLB.com) wrote about this one time. He basically said the Mets considered the ASG to be a hassle and wanted no part of it (maybe because they’d have to spend some $$$ sprucing up Shea). Now that they have a new toy to show off, natch, their attitudes have changed.
[quote]*tongue planted firmly in cheek*[/quote]
ouch…ya got me
i just gotta fix those [sarcasm][/sarcasm] tags
/felt good to vent tho, since you know im right ;)
[quote comment=”343781″][quote comment=”343777″][quote comment=”343764″][quote comment=”343763″]in the world of hypotheticals, a’s 72-74 teams versus yankees 98-00 teams
(last two teams to win 3 straight WS’s)
that might have been fun to watch[/quote]
Yes, a great matchup. So much talent on those A’s teams, though, that I’d have to give the A’s the nod.
Are the A’s moving to a new ball park anytime soon? That would really help the franchise, though there is a lot of history at the park they play in now (both for football and baseball).[/quote]
New park? link[/quote]
No new park and the owner seems dead set on leaving Oakland. He says the idea of a stadium in Oakland is a dead issue because attendance is down. Well, your first move as owner was to announce that you plan to leave Oakland for Fremont and your team is terrible. What did you think that would do to attendance?[/quote]
Where else can they go? Is Sacramento an option? Too bad the Giants won’t let them into San Jose. I have relatives-in-law there and kinda like the area. I wouldn’t mind going to a game there.
BTW, Berto, check comment 195 from last night.
[quote comment=”343788″][quote comment=”343745″][quote comment=”343744″]Great job on the Indians’ unis. You guys are outstanding.
It’d be a great project if someone went through the archives of the Caveman Era (1974-77?) and documented all the possible combinations. Paul’s right — they’re catching up to the Pirates.
Question: Did they wear white or grey much at all in that era, or was it mostly combinations of blue and red? The Okkonen book doesn’t have them wearing white or grey from 1975-77 at all (and I think the baseball cards from that era track the same way, or at least mine do), but of course we now know otherwise.[/quote][/quote]
They did not have grays from ’75-’77, they did have all whites. They rarely wore the all whites, but when they did it was with the red shoes, the infamous “ruby slippers,” a very cool combination that returned for a short while in the 90s, albeit with different uniforms.[/quote]
We now know they had these combos in the Caveman Era:
1. All-white.
2. Red on white.
3. Blue on white.
4. All-red.
5. Blue on red (yikes).
6. White on red (ditto).
Only if they had blue pants could they have equaled the Pirates’ nine combos, because that would give them three more combos (all-blue, red on blue, white on blue).
Of course, in 1974 and 1978 they had all-grey uniforms to throw into the mix; in ’74 they also had red jerseys and in ’78 they also had blue jerseys.
link
[quote comment=”343805″]since you know im right ;)[/quote]
Someone print this, frame this, and put it in the UW Hall. Phil is right. First time ever on this board. LOL ;o)
[quote comment=”343801″][quote comment=”343790″]Texans are at the Dolphins on December 27th and the Texans are going to be wearing white? I’m assuming the Dolphins are going to be wearing alternate orange tops, because they almost NEVER wear the aqua tops at home. I think you can count on one hand the instances that they have worn aqua tops at home in the last decade……[/quote]
Don’t the Fins normally wear aqua for night games at home? (I know, the Texans game is a day game)…[/quote]
They USED to go with the aqua monochrome look for the MNF or SNF games before they went with the orange alts. I do recall an evening game a few years back under Nick Saban where they went with aqua tops at home.
Holy crap…has anyone else seen this? UT sporting new uniform tops…Lane is off his rocker. I am sure this will not come back to haunt them at any point this year…
link
In regards to the FDNY jersey (sweater), the FDNY has teams for most major sports including football, baseball (I believe there is a picture of Ruth and Gehrig posing with the FDNY baseball team), hockey and soccer. They also have a race team which races the NASCAR Camping World Truck Series and a Gaelic Football Club….
Some of these teams jerseys are for sale here link
list of teams, here: link
[quote comment=”343806″][quote comment=”343781″][quote comment=”343777″][quote comment=”343764″][quote comment=”343763″]in the world of hypotheticals, a’s 72-74 teams versus yankees 98-00 teams
(last two teams to win 3 straight WS’s)
that might have been fun to watch[/quote]
Yes, a great matchup. So much talent on those A’s teams, though, that I’d have to give the A’s the nod.
Are the A’s moving to a new ball park anytime soon? That would really help the franchise, though there is a lot of history at the park they play in now (both for football and baseball).[/quote]
New park? link[/quote]
No new park and the owner seems dead set on leaving Oakland. He says the idea of a stadium in Oakland is a dead issue because attendance is down. Well, your first move as owner was to announce that you plan to leave Oakland for Fremont and your team is terrible. What did you think that would do to attendance?[/quote]
Where else can they go? Is Sacramento an option? Too bad the Giants won’t let them into San Jose. I have relatives-in-law there and kinda like the area. I wouldn’t mind going to a game there.
BTW, Berto, check comment 195 from last night.[/quote]
I don’t think they’re looking at Sac. The word is they want SJ but there’s a ton of doubt. I think the worst part of a possible move to SJ is the threat to the minor league team that’s already there.
some talk has been made about moving them out of the bay. Portland, Vegas, the usual contenders have been mentioned.
We’ll see what happens. I know that since the relocation talk started I haven’t felt as compelled to go out to the ballpark as I have in years past.
Thanks again Paul, for coming to Cleveland. Shoot, I had my membership card with me, too. Should have gotten it out when I first arrived.
By the way, I don’t think those Akron Cougars are ever going to see the light of day. It’s been three seasons since the Cuyahoga Falls Cougars played. My brother and I worked for them, and he ended up finishing the season as interim coach and GM. He had no marketable experience going in, but he’s a student of the game and a great people person. The players loved playing for him, and some of them still call him from their other teams.
Speaking of leagues that won’t see the light of day, the Arena League appears to be done. link
[quote comment=”343808″][quote comment=”343805″]since you know im right ;)[/quote]
Someone print this, frame this, and put it in the UW Hall. Phil is right. First time ever on this board. LOL ;o)[/quote]
more ‘n likely the last too.
Sorry bout that Phil, thought you’d catch the humor there, since of course the MLB will fast track an ASG to NY.
Also it’s a big conspiracy theory here in phoenix that we got put on the back burner for a game because of the way ownership basically bought the ’01 Championship with deferred salaries.
link
Best business name ever: Hot Sauce Williams
Best buisness sign and store front that, if there is any justice in the world, will never change: Steve’s Hot Dogs
The sticker removal page is funny.
[quote comment=”343807″]We now know they had these combos in the Caveman Era:
1. All-white.
2. Red on white.
3. Blue on white.
4. All-red.
5. Blue on red (yikes).
6. White on red (ditto).[/quote]
great work geeman
so…we have these confirmed
now we just need a blue
broncopants sighting….[quote comment=”343812″][quote comment=”343806″][quote comment=”343781″][quote comment=”343777″][quote comment=”343764″][quote comment=”343763″]
I don’t think they’re looking at Sac. The word is they want SJ but there’s a ton of doubt. I think the worst part of a possible move to SJ is the threat to the minor league team that’s already there.
some talk has been made about moving them out of the bay. Portland, Vegas, the usual contenders have been mentioned.
We’ll see what happens. I know that since the relocation talk started I haven’t felt as compelled to go out to the ballpark as I have in years past.[/quote]
Maybe the A’s could move to Cleveland or Pittsburgh. Oh wait, that would be a threat to THEIR minor league teams. ;)
[quote comment=”343742″][quote comment=”343740″]Thank for finding a photo of the Indians wearing the white over red combo. If you go back to the comments section from July 27 and look at comment 139, you’ll see why I’m feeling good about the odds that maybe I didn’t eliminate all of my brain cells in college.[/quote]
link, matt
you’ve turned this into (finding various caveman combinations) a semi-quest, at least for me…and it all started with ricko’s “faulty” memory and your grainy b&w photo of fosse…
maybe the “all blue” monochrome will never surface, but now we have photographic evidence of the blue over red and now white over red…awesome[/quote]
Never said Indians wore navy pants regularly. Said my impression was they were “one game specials” like Vida’s gold ones.
—Ricko
[quote comment=”343816″][quote comment=”343807″]We now know they had these combos in the Caveman Era:
1. All-white.
2. Red on white.
3. Blue on white.
4. All-red.
5. Blue on red (yikes).
6. White on red (ditto).[/quote]
great work geeman
so…we have link
now we just need a blue
broncopants sighting….[/quote]Any Clevelanders know how to get a hold of Cavs announcer Joe Tait? He used to call the Tribe games then. I’ll bet if anyone knows, Joe knows. Maybe he’ll talk to Paul.
[quote comment=”343768″][quote comment=”343761″][quote comment=”343752″] (granted, that’s the “six division” era, but doesn’t make getting to the WS any easier, in fact, harder)[/quote]
How does it make it harder- doesn’t one team still make it every year?[/quote]
one extra round of playoffs[/quote]
which makes it easier to get to the WS. more teams get in the playoffs.
[quote comment=”343818″][quote comment=”343742″][quote comment=”343740″]Thank for finding a photo of the Indians wearing the white over red combo. If you go back to the comments section from July 27 and look at comment 139, you’ll see why I’m feeling good about the odds that maybe I didn’t eliminate all of my brain cells in college.[/quote]
link, matt
you’ve turned this into (finding various caveman combinations) a semi-quest, at least for me…and it all started with ricko’s “faulty” memory and your grainy b&w photo of fosse…
maybe the “all blue” monochrome will never surface, but now we have photographic evidence of the blue over red and now white over red…awesome[/quote]
Never said Indians wore navy pants regularly. Said my impression was they were “one game specials” like Vida’s gold ones.
—Ricko[/quote]
And it wasn’t just one guy in the shot. He wasn’t the focus of the shot, he was just in it, and no one had worn navy pants in the intros. Hell, the ’81 game was in Cleveland and they still had Navy jerseys, maybe it was just the bullpen catcher or bp pitcher farting around with the uniform. Also never said I saw it on the field. Was a dugout (or I suppose could have been bullpen) shot only up long enough to recognize it was an Indians uni and, what the hell, he was wearing navy pants.
Something like that would explain the whole thing.
—Ricko
[quote comment=”343816″][quote comment=”343807″]We now know they had these combos in the Caveman Era:
1. All-white.
2. Red on white.
3. Blue on white.
4. All-red.
5. Blue on red (yikes).
6. White on red (ditto).[/quote]
great work geeman
so…we have these confirmed
now we just need a blue
broncopants sighting….[/quote]and these are the unconfirmed
[quote comment=”343822″][quote comment=”343816″][quote comment=”343807″]We now know they had these combos in the Caveman Era:
1. All-white.
2. Red on white.
3. Blue on white.
4. All-red.
5. Blue on red (yikes).
6. White on red (ditto).[/quote]
great work geeman
so…we have link
now we just need a blue
broncopants sighting….[/quote]and these are the link[/quote]
That there middle one, that’s what I saw. Remember the red-white waistband and the pants stripes. That’s how I knew it sure wasn’t the White Sox (well, that and the red visor). Starting to think maybe it was just the bp pitcher or someone…who wore a pair of “samples” he found in the clubhouse to be flashy for the ASG in ’81.
—Ricko
[quote comment=”343820″][quote comment=”343768″][quote comment=”343761″][quote comment=”343752″] (granted, that’s the “six division” era, but doesn’t make getting to the WS any easier, in fact, harder)[/quote]
How does it make it harder- doesn’t one team still make it every year?[/quote]
one extra round of playoffs[/quote]
which makes it easier to get to the WS. more teams get in the playoffs.[/quote]
:: head hurts at the mere thought of this thread going further ::
My debate with DJ Gallo is now up:
link
Agree with the sentiment and danger of snowball re: the ads on practice jerseys. But our practice helmets had those lame No Fear stickers. And I once puked on the shoulder of my practice jersey in JV and kept it there for a week or so. Anyway, point is, I never had much respect for practice wear like game unis.
My apologies, that was yesterday’s topic. It won’t happen again, boyos.
NEWS
For the first time in 12 years, the Navy quarterback (Ricky Dobbs) will be given a protection jersey for practice. Ricky will sport a green “no-contact” jersey. In the recent past, Navy’s quarterbacks were famously open for contact during practice.
BEAT ARMY
link
[quote comment=”343800″][quote comment=”343797″][quote comment=”343794″]so, i was just takin’ my smoke break and i noticed link on a yellow bug in the parking lot…
pretty hard to fathom that the last time the mets hosted the ASG was ’64 (fyos)…but i guess that means
citifieldnew shea is due2011 is in phoenix, look for boston to get 2012 (for the 100th anniversary of the fens), and maybe new shea in 2013…but i’ve also heard selig was gonna give 2012 to the royals, and look for the twinkies to get in on this too
and you have wrigley wanting 2014 for their 100th…[/quote]
Well… NY just hosted an ASG (I know I know different team) and it took MLB 14 years to give phoenix one (although that probably has more to do with 115 degree temps than anything) so I think that is your precedent, 2022 or bust![/quote]
then explain to me how the link (just as one example) have had THREE games since the mets last had one? (pittsburgh has also hosted three since the mets last hosted one)…many teams have had two hostings, and chicago (two different teams) has hosted three
the mets are most CERTAINLY NOT the yankees, so the “new york got one in 08” argument does not apply
im not trying to take away from your concern that the d-backs took too long to get a hosting…i’d agree with you there — you have a great park and i’d love to party in that pool
but don’t tell me the mets aren’t WAAAAAYYYY overdue and don’t give me the “NYC” argument (since even if you count the yankees hosting, they had TWO total since the mets last hosted), so it’s not like NYC is getting ASG goodness at the expense of other cities
so eff 2022 ;)[/quote]
Maybe it had more to do with Shea Stadium. : )
bye bye AFL!!
link
can we have a Requeim for a Uni bit?
(is AF2 to follow?)
[quote comment=”343819″]Any Clevelanders know how to get a hold of Cavs announcer Joe Tait? He used to call the Tribe games then. I’ll bet if anyone knows, Joe knows. Maybe he’ll talk to Paul.[/quote]
Hey Jim (great meeting you last week, btw)… I don’t know how to get a hold of Mr. Tait, but I can possibly get in touch with Bruce Drennan, Joe’s eating/broadcast partner in those days (you could also try calling into Bruce’s show on STO as well).
If memory serves correctly, Joe and Bruce called Lenny Barker’s perfect game on WUAB, channel 43 that amazing Friday night. How do I know it was a Friday night, you may ask? Well, rather than watch Barker’s game in it’s entirety, I was watching the “Dukes of Hazzard.” At the very least, I was flipping back and forth but must not have ever noticed the box score since I didn’t find out about it till they ran a text crawl across the bottom of the screen reading something to the effect of “Indians pitcher Lenny Barker has just completed a perfect game!” all while the Duke boys were yee-hawin’ about somethin’ or t’other. The one great Cleveland sports memory of my youth and I fumbled it. Ah, at least I got to see a little bit of the game.
[quote comment=”343825″]My debate with DJ Gallo is now up:
link
Nice article (could have been a bit longer though, gotten into more detail).
My problem with fantasy sports is that you are essentially rooting for a “team” alone. Your team of Drew Brees, Adrian Peterson, Jason Whitten- only you can root for this team.
There’s something necessary- in my opinion- to the communal nature of being a fan of a team. Sure, you can watch games alone- but you’re still cheering with your fellow fans.
Maybe I’m waxing a bit too poetic- but that just feels lonely to me.
Secondly, following individual stats- as the pure crux of your fandom- goes against what a fan is supposed to root for- the strategy of the entire team.
[quote comment=”343823″][quote comment=”343822″][quote comment=”343816″][quote comment=”343807″]We now know they had these combos in the Caveman Era:
1. All-white.
2. Red on white.
3. Blue on white.
4. All-red.
5. Blue on red (yikes).
6. White on red (ditto).[/quote]
great work geeman
so…we have link
now we just need a blue
broncopants sighting….[/quote]and these are the link[/quote]
That there middle one, that’s what I saw. Remember the red-white waistband and the pants stripes. That’s how I knew it sure wasn’t the White Sox (well, that and the red visor). Starting to think maybe it was just the bp pitcher or someone…who wore a pair of “samples” he found in the clubhouse to be flashy for the ASG in ’81.
—Ricko[/quote]
Nice work on the sketches! Maybe that can be added to the Dressed to the Nines database.
Note that since the white-on-red was the last game of the ’76 season, the Indians beat the Pirates to the punch on mixing and matching, since the Pirates did not start till 1977.
Note also that the A’s, according to this source, had the three standards — white, gold, green — along with all-gold and all-green, but they never mixed and matched that we know of.
link
(Interesting that the color of the “A’s” on the gold jersey was both white and green at one point.)
[quote comment=”343756″]Or this:
link
I remember the Lynn Dickey era Packers wearing variations of that style of mask. I always thought it was interesting that much of the team did that. Lofton, Coffman, etc.
A lot of the mid-80’s Bears did the same thing with those thick facemasks that were around at the time. You know, like the one Woody Harrelson wore in Wild Cats.
[quote comment=”343810″]Holy crap…has anyone else seen this? UT sporting new uniform tops…Lane is off his rocker. I am sure this will not come back to haunt them at any point this year…
link
I didn’t see much chest hair in that footage. I could have stood in there with my pelt and mixed it up a bit.
North Dakota has a new logo. It looks less like the Notre Dame one now.
link
[quote comment=”343831″][quote comment=”343819″]Any Clevelanders know how to get a hold of Cavs announcer Joe Tait? He used to call the Tribe games then. I’ll bet if anyone knows, Joe knows. Maybe he’ll talk to Paul.[/quote]
Hey Jim (great meeting you last week, btw)… I don’t know how to get a hold of Mr. Tait, but I can possibly get in touch with Bruce Drennan, Joe’s eating/broadcast partner in those days (you could also try calling into Bruce’s show on STO as well).
If memory serves correctly, Joe and Bruce called Lenny Barker’s perfect game on WUAB, channel 43 that amazing Friday night. How do I know it was a Friday night, you may ask? Well, rather than watch Barker’s game in it’s entirety, I was watching the “Dukes of Hazzard.” At the very least, I was flipping back and forth but must not have ever noticed the box score since I didn’t find out about it till they ran a text crawl across the bottom of the screen reading something to the effect of “Indians pitcher Lenny Barker has just completed a perfect game!” all while the Duke boys were yee-hawin’ about somethin’ or t’other. The one great Cleveland sports memory of my youth and I fumbled it. Ah, at least I got to see a little bit of the game.[/quote]
I didn’t see the game live, but when I had ESPN Classic I taped it. My brother saw it while at a bachelor party. The dancer was mad because none of the guys were paying attention to her – their eyes were fixed on the TV watching history in the making.
Great to meet you too, and great job with those AFL designs.
Re: fantasy football
Ok work with me here:
I’m a d-back in the NFL
It’s the last game of the season
My team is locked into last place
I play fantasy football
The receiver I’m facing is on my fantasy team
I need him to score to win a six figure league championship pot
Just sayin’….
On a related topic, how do we know that Tiki Barber hasn’t played in place of his brother a few times?
[quote comment=”343825″]My debate with DJ Gallo is now up:
link
from dj:
[quote]there is no conceivable reason I would be watching that game at that point if it was not for Player X being on my fantasy team. If having no interest in an 11-2 regular-season baseball game makes me a bad sports fan, well … so be it[/quote]
hey, dj…you said it, not me
[quote comment=”343757″][quote comment=”343752″][quote] Four World Series championships and six A.L. pennants. That’s hard to beat.[/quote]
but you could tie — if you’re the yankees, circa 1996-2003 – 4 WS, 6 AL pennants (granted, that’s the “six division” era, but doesn’t make getting to the WS any easier, in fact, harder) … that’s in a eight year span…and they won the AL east ’96, ’98, ’99, ’00, ’01, ’02, ’03, ’04, ’05 & ’06 – 10 division championships in 11 years
damn…no wonder everyone hates the yankees[/quote]
Definitely, you’re right about the Yankes. Not saying the A’s are the best. Just saying that the A’s have one of the best histories in major league baseball since the division era started. Plus they’ve been good in three different eras (1970s, late 1980s/early 1990s, early 2000s). Clearly the Yanks got the best of them in the playoffs (1981, 2000, 2001).[/quote]
Let’s not forget, it was, and is, much easier for big market teams like the Yankees and Red Sox to win championships than in the 1970s, when the huge gap in payroll disparity didn’t exist. Back when baseball(and not football) was actually the national pastime, small market teams flourished, despite having four fewer playoff spots available.
Hence, it’s quite accurate to say what the A’s did in the 1970s is more impressive than what the Yankees accomplished earlier this decade. It’s unlikely we’ll ever see a small market team repeat as champions either, much less qualify for the playoffs the following year.
The main reason the NFL is now the national pastime, is that they understood, going back to the early 1960s, the value of competitive balance. In the NFL, good management is the key reason teams win world titles, not the huge payroll. The A’s deserve credit for being successful in recent years, but even their great front office wasn’t good enough to reach a single World Series.
People who don’t understand the unfairness of baseball’s economic system love to bring up the Tampa Bay Rays, who enjoyed a miracle season in 2008. Problem was, they lost the WS, and it will be difficult for them to even make the playoffs next year. The Rays will inevitably lose their talented young players as time goes on. It’s a vicious cycle.
[quote comment=”343839″]
from dj:
[quote]there is no conceivable reason I would be watching that game at that point if it was not for Player X being on my fantasy team. If having no interest in an 11-2 regular-season baseball game makes me a bad sports fan, well … so be it[/quote]
hey, dj…you said it, not me[/quote]
Great pull, Phil…
[quote comment=”343825″]My debate with DJ Gallo is now up:
link
I did one year of fantasy football – that was enough for me. I don’t mind drafting hated rivals when their real-life stats don’t matter, for instance in Madden or Strat-o-Matic (by the way, I knew UW was the place for me when I enjoy creating teams and uniforms on Madden more than playing the stupid game).
I never bought into the “it gets me interested in games I wouldn’t normally watch” argument that gamblers and fantasy guys use. I’ll watch almost any game if it’s a good one. If it’s a dud and I want to know how someone did, I just check the web or the TV later.
[quote comment=”343809″][quote comment=”343801″][quote comment=”343790″]Texans are at the Dolphins on December 27th and the Texans are going to be wearing white? I’m assuming the Dolphins are going to be wearing alternate orange tops, because they almost NEVER wear the aqua tops at home. I think you can count on one hand the instances that they have worn aqua tops at home in the last decade……[/quote]
Don’t the Fins normally wear aqua for night games at home? (I know, the Texans game is a day game)…[/quote]
They USED to go with the aqua monochrome look for the MNF or SNF games before they went with the orange alts. I do recall an evening game a few years back under Nick Saban where they went with aqua tops at home.[/quote]
Miami also haven’t worn orange since 2004. I’m fairly certain they’ve been ditched forever (I’ve heard that rumour coming from Joe Robbie Stadium a few times).
I just don’t think the Texans have thought about what they’ve written.
The Fins wouldn’t wear aqua at home unless its a night game.
[quote comment=”343840″][quote comment=”343757″][quote comment=”343752″][quote] Four World Series championships and six A.L. pennants. That’s hard to beat.[/quote]
but you could tie — if you’re the yankees, circa 1996-2003 – 4 WS, 6 AL pennants (granted, that’s the “six division” era, but doesn’t make getting to the WS any easier, in fact, harder) … that’s in a eight year span…and they won the AL east ’96, ’98, ’99, ’00, ’01, ’02, ’03, ’04, ’05 & ’06 – 10 division championships in 11 years
damn…no wonder everyone hates the yankees[/quote]
Definitely, you’re right about the Yankes. Not saying the A’s are the best. Just saying that the A’s have one of the best histories in major league baseball since the division era started. Plus they’ve been good in three different eras (1970s, late 1980s/early 1990s, early 2000s). Clearly the Yanks got the best of them in the playoffs (1981, 2000, 2001).[/quote]
Let’s not forget, it was, and is, much easier for big market teams like the Yankees and Red Sox to win championships than in the 1970s, when the huge gap in payroll disparity didn’t exist. Back when baseball(and not football) was actually the national pastime, small market teams flourished, despite having four fewer playoff spots available.
Hence, it’s quite accurate to say what the A’s did in the 1970s is more impressive than what the Yankees accomplished earlier this decade. It’s unlikely we’ll ever see a small market team repeat as champions either, much less qualify for the playoffs the following year.
The main reason the NFL is now the national pastime, is that they understood, going back to the early 1960s, the value of competitive balance. In the NFL, good management is the key reason teams win world titles, not the huge payroll. The A’s deserve credit for being successful in recent years, but even their great front office wasn’t good enough to reach a single World Series.
People who don’t understand the unfairness of baseball’s economic system love to bring up the Tampa Bay Rays, who enjoyed a miracle season in 2008. Problem was, they lost the WS, and it will be difficult for them to even make the playoffs next year. The Rays will inevitably lose their talented young players as time goes on. It’s a vicious cycle.[/quote]
yeah, but baseball has the most teams in big markets than the other sports, and baseball has a different WS winner almost every year. Sure, it’s tuff for a handful of small-market teams, but it’s only a handful. I’ve got expanded thoughts on the issue here:
link
Just wanted to give a shout out to everyone I met at the UW party in Cleveland, you all made a Pittsburgh boy feel real welcome!
Regarding an NYC UW trip, Paul, when you have the next one, I’ll be sure to make every attempt to get there.
[quote comment=”343843″][quote comment=”343809″][quote comment=”343801″][quote comment=”343790″]Texans are at the Dolphins on December 27th and the Texans are going to be wearing white? I’m assuming the Dolphins are going to be wearing alternate orange tops, because they almost NEVER wear the aqua tops at home. I think you can count on one hand the instances that they have worn aqua tops at home in the last decade……[/quote]
Don’t the Fins normally wear aqua for night games at home? (I know, the Texans game is a day game)…[/quote]
They USED to go with the aqua monochrome look for the MNF or SNF games before they went with the orange alts. I do recall an evening game a few years back under Nick Saban where they went with aqua tops at home.[/quote]
Miami also haven’t worn orange since 2004. I’m fairly certain they’ve been ditched forever (I’ve heard that rumour coming from Joe Robbie Stadium a few times).
I just don’t think the Texans have thought about what they’ve written.
The Fins wouldn’t wear aqua at home unless its a night game.[/quote]
Well that’s the thing: The Fins have been bad for a few years now that the league hasn’t put them on MNF or SNF. I remember the 2004 game, I think it was a MNF game against the Pats(?), and I clearly remember the Saban night game but other than that…… they’ve really only worn aqua when they play a team like the Cowboys or Redskins on the road, or something like last year they played the Pats on the road and NE decided to use white at home that day.
I thought Paul had written earlier this year that the Fins are going to be rocking the orange tops this year, but I may be mistaken. Anyone?
I played fantasy football for a few years. Every year it was the same- buy a magazine on the way to the draft, fiddle with my lineups early in the season, lose interest by week 3.
Quitting that crap was the best thing I ever did.
[quote comment=”343830″]bye bye AFL!!
link
can we have a Requeim for a Uni bit?
(is AF2 to follow?)[/quote]
Good riddance! That was some lame ass shit. Only a fraction of a step better than ESPN’s lame ass “American Gladiators”.
[quote comment=”343825″]My debate with DJ Gallo is now up:
link
Even though I’m a semi-avid fantasy player (haven’t done baseball in a few years, but still play in a football league that plays for money), I cringe at the stuff like the Jeter story.
When I worked at the mall, on Sundays of Steelers’ games we’d have the game on. One day a guy came in and was like “Did the Steelers score?” I said “yes”.
So I braced for his next question which was “who scored?” When I told him it was Yancey Thigpen he was visibly disappointed that it wasn’t Bettis.
I not-so-politely told him to get the hell out of the store (not exactly par excellence customer service!!!!)
[quote comment=”343845″]Just wanted to give a shout out to everyone I met at the UW party in Cleveland, you all made a Pittsburgh boy feel real welcome!
Regarding an NYC UW trip, Paul, when you have the next one, I’ll be sure to make every attempt to get there.[/quote]
Great to meet not just another ‘Burgh fan, but another script Pitt fan as well! Keep up the good fight on that one. If I make it to a Pirates game this year I’ll let you know in case you want to join me.
[quote comment=”343844″][quote comment=”343840″][quote comment=”343757″][quote comment=”343752″][quote] Four World Series championships and six A.L. pennants. That’s hard to beat.[/quote]
but you could tie — if you’re the yankees, circa 1996-2003 – 4 WS, 6 AL pennants (granted, that’s the “six division” era, but doesn’t make getting to the WS any easier, in fact, harder) … that’s in a eight year span…and they won the AL east ’96, ’98, ’99, ’00, ’01, ’02, ’03, ’04, ’05 & ’06 – 10 division championships in 11 years
damn…no wonder everyone hates the yankees[/quote]
Definitely, you’re right about the Yankes. Not saying the A’s are the best. Just saying that the A’s have one of the best histories in major league baseball since the division era started. Plus they’ve been good in three different eras (1970s, late 1980s/early 1990s, early 2000s). Clearly the Yanks got the best of them in the playoffs (1981, 2000, 2001).[/quote]
Let’s not forget, it was, and is, much easier for big market teams like the Yankees and Red Sox to win championships than in the 1970s, when the huge gap in payroll disparity didn’t exist. Back when baseball(and not football) was actually the national pastime, small market teams flourished, despite having four fewer playoff spots available.
Hence, it’s quite accurate to say what the A’s did in the 1970s is more impressive than what the Yankees accomplished earlier this decade. It’s unlikely we’ll ever see a small market team repeat as champions either, much less qualify for the playoffs the following year.
The main reason the NFL is now the national pastime, is that they understood, going back to the early 1960s, the value of competitive balance. In the NFL, good management is the key reason teams win world titles, not the huge payroll. The A’s deserve credit for being successful in recent years, but even their great front office wasn’t good enough to reach a single World Series.
People who don’t understand the unfairness of baseball’s economic system love to bring up the Tampa Bay Rays, who enjoyed a miracle season in 2008. Problem was, they lost the WS, and it will be difficult for them to even make the playoffs next year. The Rays will inevitably lose their talented young players as time goes on. It’s a vicious cycle.[/quote]
yeah, but baseball has the most teams in big markets than the other sports, and baseball has a different WS winner almost every year. Sure, it’s tuff for a handful of small-market teams, but it’s only a handful. I’ve got expanded thoughts on the issue here:
link
excellent post coachie
i had about a 1,000 word post all typed out but i hit “refresh” because i’ve exceeded my quotas of rants for the day
i did have a pretty good one last night, which is at least tertiarily related to this big/small market argument…
the problem aint the size of the market, it’s the size of the salaries…unless and until the owners (and the agents) can decide that maybe a guy who can throw 100 mph aint really worth $25M per year, we’ll never solve the problems facing baseball today
[quote comment=”343844″][quote comment=”343840″][quote comment=”343757″][quote comment=”343752″][quote] Four World Series championships and six A.L. pennants. That’s hard to beat.[/quote]
but you could tie — if you’re the yankees, circa 1996-2003 – 4 WS, 6 AL pennants (granted, that’s the “six division” era, but doesn’t make getting to the WS any easier, in fact, harder) … that’s in a eight year span…and they won the AL east ’96, ’98, ’99, ’00, ’01, ’02, ’03, ’04, ’05 & ’06 – 10 division championships in 11 years
damn…no wonder everyone hates the yankees[/quote]
Definitely, you’re right about the Yankes. Not saying the A’s are the best. Just saying that the A’s have one of the best histories in major league baseball since the division era started. Plus they’ve been good in three different eras (1970s, late 1980s/early 1990s, early 2000s). Clearly the Yanks got the best of them in the playoffs (1981, 2000, 2001).[/quote]
Let’s not forget, it was, and is, much easier for big market teams like the Yankees and Red Sox to win championships than in the 1970s, when the huge gap in payroll disparity didn’t exist. Back when baseball(and not football) was actually the national pastime, small market teams flourished, despite having four fewer playoff spots available.
Hence, it’s quite accurate to say what the A’s did in the 1970s is more impressive than what the Yankees accomplished earlier this decade. It’s unlikely we’ll ever see a small market team repeat as champions either, much less qualify for the playoffs the following year.
The main reason the NFL is now the national pastime, is that they understood, going back to the early 1960s, the value of competitive balance. In the NFL, good management is the key reason teams win world titles, not the huge payroll. The A’s deserve credit for being successful in recent years, but even their great front office wasn’t good enough to reach a single World Series.
People who don’t understand the unfairness of baseball’s economic system love to bring up the Tampa Bay Rays, who enjoyed a miracle season in 2008. Problem was, they lost the WS, and it will be difficult for them to even make the playoffs next year. The Rays will inevitably lose their talented young players as time goes on. It’s a vicious cycle.[/quote]
yeah, but baseball has the most teams in big markets than the other sports, and baseball has a different WS winner almost every year. Sure, it’s tuff for a handful of small-market teams, but it’s only a handful. I’ve got expanded thoughts on the issue here:
link
“In the NFL, good management is the key reason teams win world titles, not the huge payroll. “– as Dan Snyder can attest to. Great point.
Gusto’s original point is right on target, though. In football, you have a handful of teams, most notably the Lions, that stink because of horrible management and personnel decisions. But they get to spend the same amount of money that the Pats, Colts and Steelers spend.
In baseball, you have teams, like the Pirates and Royals, that stink because ownership lines their pockets with the revenue sharing money they get instead of using that money to improve the product on the field. And then what few times they DO spend money on players, they make horrible personnel decisions. Sometimes you CAN thrive in that environment (Carl Pohlad was notorious for pocketing the revenue sharing money he received, and yet because of outstanding scouting, player development and a great manager the Twins were always competitive) but that’s really the rare exception and not the norm.
That blog brings up a good point, that despite all their spending the Yankees haven’t sniffed a title since 2000, but by that same token, something’s not right when a team can have two #1 starters on its staff and think about getting ANOTHER #1 pitcher and make plans to sign a mid-small market team’s free agents because that small market team can no longer afford them. Call it competitive imbalance, call it unrivaled success, call it reaping the benefits of being the “best” franchise in sports, but the truth is that there is a problem there. I’ll be damned if I know what the solution is, though.
Widespread free agency changed everything, that’s for sure.
So we have to ask, was it easier to win when you could keep players around, but basically had to play with what you had…or is it easier now that, if you have the big bucks, you can visit the Free Agent Market and load up your shopping cart?
Sometimes I think it’s perception. During the off-season, fans in smaller markets always feel like, “Damn, we never get to sign any of those famous guys.”
The reality, though, is that some small market teams are consistently pretty good and sometimes seem to miraculously break through to the championship round (Rays, Az Cardinals).
The Twins, for example. It’s easy to bemoan their stinginess, but all in all, they play good ball year after year (don’t ask about the last few weeks, though). Yet, the Rangers and Royals and PIrates and Padres of the world generally trudge along, knowing their Septembers most often will be meaningless.
So I think the answer is simple. If you don’t have the dough, the organization better know what it’s doing. If you DO have the dough, the organization better know what it’s doing.
The big guys can command headlines with their deals, but come late in the season, they aren’t always the only ones still standing.
Y’know, as far back as the ’50s, the Yankees were accused of “buying” championships. Some things never change.
It is sad, though, to know that most fans look at a team like the Rays and think, “Eventually, they’ll lose all their good players.”
Because it’s true. People around here are traumatized, understandably so, by the thought of Joe Mauer playing for the Red Sox or the Yankees. But it’s a very, very real possibility at this point.
—Ricko
[quote comment=”343795″][quote comment=”343743″]”Bit of a snafu in the Brewers’ clubhouse, where Claudio Vargas’s NOB was straight instead of arched (with thanks to Nate Neumann)”
If they used nameplates that would be a non issue! ;)
PS – The drop shadow on that G is enormous as well![/quote]
It was also straight on the gray road jerseys when they were in San Diego – probably the case of having to get a rush job on the road thanks to the trade.[/quote]
Rush or no rush, a professional should act as such and do it correctly. No special tools are needed to make an arch…and if you are in the position of making that jersey you should be able to handle that task.
[quote comment=”343825″] I knew UW was the place for me when I enjoy creating teams and uniforms on Madden more than playing the stupid game.[/quote]
There was a soccer game called Winning Eleven that I played on my PS2. They didn’t have the FIFA license so all of the teams had fake names, and close uniforms. I always took it upon myself to spend hours/days making sure each team was up to date with how the uniform looked complete with recreating the sponsor logo on the front of the jersey.
Say what you will about sponsor logos, but nothing is better than watching a replay and seeing how well you could pull off a complicated logo (like this one for Everton: link ) just using the crappy editing software that comes with the game.
[quote comment=”343844″][quote comment=”343840″][quote comment=”343757″][quote comment=”343752″][quote] Four World Series championships and six A.L. pennants. That’s hard to beat.[/quote]
but you could tie — if you’re the yankees, circa 1996-2003 – 4 WS, 6 AL pennants (granted, that’s the “six division” era, but doesn’t make getting to the WS any easier, in fact, harder) … that’s in a eight year span…and they won the AL east ’96, ’98, ’99, ’00, ’01, ’02, ’03, ’04, ’05 & ’06 – 10 division championships in 11 years
damn…no wonder everyone hates the yankees[/quote]
Definitely, you’re right about the Yankes. Not saying the A’s are the best. Just saying that the A’s have one of the best histories in major league baseball since the division era started. Plus they’ve been good in three different eras (1970s, late 1980s/early 1990s, early 2000s). Clearly the Yanks got the best of them in the playoffs (1981, 2000, 2001).[/quote]
Let’s not forget, it was, and is, much easier for big market teams like the Yankees and Red Sox to win championships than in the 1970s, when the huge gap in payroll disparity didn’t exist. Back when baseball(and not football) was actually the national pastime, small market teams flourished, despite having four fewer playoff spots available.
Hence, it’s quite accurate to say what the A’s did in the 1970s is more impressive than what the Yankees accomplished earlier this decade. It’s unlikely we’ll ever see a small market team repeat as champions either, much less qualify for the playoffs the following year.
The main reason the NFL is now the national pastime, is that they understood, going back to the early 1960s, the value of competitive balance. In the NFL, good management is the key reason teams win world titles, not the huge payroll. The A’s deserve credit for being successful in recent years, but even their great front office wasn’t good enough to reach a single World Series.
People who don’t understand the unfairness of baseball’s economic system love to bring up the Tampa Bay Rays, who enjoyed a miracle season in 2008. Problem was, they lost the WS, and it will be difficult for them to even make the playoffs next year. The Rays will inevitably lose their talented young players as time goes on. It’s a vicious cycle.[/quote]
yeah, but baseball has the most teams in big markets than the other sports, and baseball has a different WS winner almost every year. Sure, it’s tuff for a handful of small-market teams, but it’s only a handful. I’ve got expanded thoughts on the issue here:
link
I read your article, and if small market teams were actually able to compete for and win titles in MLB, I would agree with you. While you’re correct about different teams winning the World Series recently, let’s not forget those teams are mostly larger market teams like the Phillies, Red Sox, and White Sox. Oakland has always been a small market team, the full effect and decline of baseball’s popularity didn’t occur until the 1990s. Baseball was still more popular in the 1970s and 1980s.
MLB can only dream of the competitive balance found in the NFL, where teams like Pittsburgh and Green Bay actually have the ability to contend for the title year in and year out.It’s the flawed, unfair system that we’re stuck with. If New York was on the other side of this system you can bet, there would be much more discussion on this issue. But it’s not a ratings grabber, so the national media doesn’t care.
If MLB actually did have a decent economic system, then teams like the A’s would have appeared and won at least one World Series in recent years. In the end, baseball’s unfair system harms the game, have you checked World Series ratings lately? It also damages the legacy of teams like the Yankee teams, who did reel off those world titles in the late 1990s. I can’t remember the last time any person with real knowledge of the game, compared those Yankees with say, the great Yankee teams of the 1950s. The reason? Competitive balance, it’s always easier to win when you really only face competition from larger market teams over time. Championships won in this unequal situation, will never be as valuable as those won when baseball was truly the national pastime, and every team had a fighting chance leaving spring training.
Of course, some might say there have always been bottom feeder teams in MLB, going back to the St. Louis Browns. But there’s a HUGE difference, the gap in payroll was no where near what it is today. The main reason, teams like the Browns were bad over many years was bad management, not the system. In recent years, great mangement, i.e. the A’s, isn’t good enough to overcome the flawed economic system.
[quote comment=”343853″]Widespread free agency changed everything, that’s for sure.
So we have to ask, was it easier to win when you could keep players around, but basically had to play with what you had…or is it easier now that, if you have the big bucks, you can visit the Free Agent Market and load up your shopping cart?
Sometimes I think it’s perception. During the off-season, fans in smaller markets always feel like, “Damn, we never get to sign any of those famous guys.”
The reality, though, is that some small market teams are consistently pretty good and sometimes seem to miraculously break through to the championship round (Rays, Az Cardinals).
The Twins, for example. It’s easy to bemoan their stinginess, but all in all, they play good ball year after year (don’t ask about the last few weeks, though). Yet, the Rangers and Royals and PIrates and Padres of the world generally trudge along, knowing their Septembers most often will be meaningless.
So I think the answer is simple. If you don’t have the dough, the organization better know what it’s doing. If you DO have the dough, the organization better know what it’s doing.
The big guys can command headlines with their deals, but come late in the season, they aren’t always the only ones still standing.
Y’know, as far back as the ’50s, the Yankees were accused of “buying” championships. Some things never change.
It is sad, though, to know that most fans look at a team like the Rays and think, “Eventually, they’ll lose all their good players.”
Because it’s true. People around here are traumatized, understandably so, by the thought of Joe Mauer playing for the Red Sox or the Yankees. But it’s a very, very real possibility at this point.
—Ricko[/quote]
Well said. As a fan of a small market team it is hard to see players leave year after year. The funny thing is that very few of the big name players who have left here (Oakland) have won championships(Damon, Mulder). It certainly eased the pain watching Giambi not win a title year after year.
“As a 49ers fan, I don’t ever want a situation in which a Frank Gore TD run leaves even a hint of a bad taste in my mouth. (Let’s face it, Niners fans don’t have much to cheer about as it is.)”
-Paul, are you really a niner fan or is that just a hypothetical?
Not sure if you guys have seen this… but link.
just as a fan of the (insert small market team here) can say “baseball isn’t fair…waahhhh” (and i do admit, if you live in one of those cities, it sounds like a valid argument), a baseball fan in a “big city” can complain, “how come it costs me $300 to take my family of four to a game when the fan in (insert same small market team) can do it for $120 (or less)”?
if you’re going to complain about the economics of baseball, you have to look at the overall economics of the nation…or even internationally, if your favorite team happens to hail from canada…
if you want revenue sharing, tv contract sharing and all those “wonderful” things the NFL has (including the big joke of a so-called salary cap), you’d better be prepared to see your ticket prices, your hot dog prices and your beer prices go up so mine can go down
if the semi-socialistic goal of “helping” the small markets (through the redistribution of wealth) applies, then i guess those baseball players who play in new york, boston and chicago all better be prepared to fork over hefty portions of their salaries so the “poor” players in tampa and kansas city don’t starve
and don’t forget to tell the guys who buy ads in oakland and pittsburgh they gotta kick in more for their buys, cuz, ya know, everything is gonna be all equal-like… in cleveland? your tickets just went up from $10 to $30 because we’re all gonna share the pain…meanwhile, those yankee $2,500 seats — they just came down to $500
you wanna share the wealth, that’s fine, but then you have to share everything equally…if the royals must be able to compete by spending only say $45 million, but you want the yankees to only have that same amount to spend, then there is no reason why a yankee fan should have to pay that much for his seat, right? why should baseball cost more in new york than milwaukee? and a yankee frank should cost as much in cincinnati, yes?
yeah…my argument is ridiculous…
but to blame the “big city” teams for the problems of every small market team is as ridiculous as matt millen running the lions
i don’t know what the answer is…but i do know that when in babe ruth’s day, the best ballplayer commanded somewhere in the neighborhood of 9 times the average salary of the working man…and NOW it’s closer to two hundred times that amount…it doesn’t take a genius to see where the problems begin
Baseball is unique in that the price tag for local broadcasting rights varies hugely from team to team.
And, while baseball’s national packages are nicely high-ticket, they don’t come close to the NFL’s numbers. This, of course, is due to one-game-a-week. It’s an “event” league. Baseball, basketball and hockey are far more day-to-day,
Yankees and Red Sox and a few others make tremendous amounts of money for their local packages…compared to, say, the A’s or Mariners or some such.
Imagine how bad it would be if MLB teams didn’t share revenues (which many of the large market teams are starting to bitch about, btw). There’d be maybe six teams in the “Super Majors” and the rest would play among themselves.
—Ricko
Though it’s not a surprise given their logo redesign, you can see the Philly 76ers new (old) jerseys here: link
I haven’t been able to find a pic of the front yet.
I fully admit that the small payroll teams have it terrible in baseball. What I am saying is that it’s not that big of a deal. Sure, it’s calous. But the majority of teams in baseball are able to compete. Moreover, a different team wins every year. To me, that’s fairly balanced. In basketball, for very different reasons, only a few teams get to win the title. Yet few complain about the NBA’s imbalance. It’s the perception of fairness rather than the reality.
Again, while it’s the major markets that win the WS, it’s different markets almost every year, and there are only a handful of teams that can’t compete in baseball, so while that’s terrible news for the Pirates, Royals, and 6 other teams or so, the rest of the teams can say they have a realistic shot at the title.
15 different WS champs out of the last 22 champs, that’s the best ratio among the three major sports.
And to second what Ricko said, baseball can’t quite have the cap system that the NFL and the NBA have because it doesn’t have a huge National TV package that it can split money from.
[quote comment=”343858″]”As a 49ers fan, I don’t ever want a situation in which a Frank Gore TD run leaves even a hint of a bad taste in my mouth. (Let’s face it, Niners fans don’t have much to cheer about as it is.)”
-Paul, are you really a niner fan or is that just a hypothetical?[/quote]
Paul has mentioned the 49ers are his favorite NFL team a few times.
[quote comment=”343860″]just as a fan of the (insert small market team here) can say “baseball isn’t fair…waahhhh” (and i do admit, if you live in one of those cities, it sounds like a valid argument), a baseball fan in a “big city” can complain, “how come it costs me $300 to take my family of four to a game when the fan in (insert same small market team) can do it for $120 (or less)”?
if you’re going to complain about the economics of baseball, you have to look at the overall economics of the nation…or even internationally, if your favorite team happens to hail from canada…
if you want revenue sharing, tv contract sharing and all those “wonderful” things the NFL has (including the big joke of a so-called salary cap), you’d better be prepared to see your ticket prices, your hot dog prices and your beer prices go up so mine can go down
if the semi-socialistic goal of “helping” the small markets (through the redistribution of wealth) applies, then i guess those baseball players who play in new york, boston and chicago all better be prepared to fork over hefty portions of their salaries so the “poor” players in tampa and kansas city don’t starve
and don’t forget to tell the guys who buy ads in oakland and pittsburgh they gotta kick in more for their buys, cuz, ya know, everything is gonna be all equal-like… in cleveland? your tickets just went up from $10 to $30 because we’re all gonna share the pain…meanwhile, those yankee $2,500 seats — they just came down to $500
you wanna share the wealth, that’s fine, but then you have to share everything equally…if the royals must be able to compete by spending only say $45 million, but you want the yankees to only have that same amount to spend, then there is no reason why a yankee fan should have to pay that much for his seat, right? why should baseball cost more in new york than milwaukee? and a yankee frank should cost as much in cincinnati, yes?
yeah…my argument is ridiculous…
but to blame the “big city” teams for the problems of every small market team is as ridiculous as matt millen running the lions
i don’t know what the answer is…but i do know that when in babe ruth’s day, the best ballplayer commanded somewhere in the neighborhood of 9 times the average salary of the working man…and NOW it’s closer to two hundred times that amount…it doesn’t take a genius to see where the problems begin[/quote]
Yeah, some parts of this particular rant are a little out there. I’ll agree about ticket and concession prices though. Not that one market’s prices should affect another but if NY etc are making such huge money on TV deals and other advertising why gouge the fans? I know, because they can. It still doesn’t make it a good thing.
Hey as long as we’re talking about disparity and what not how about west coast teams having to start at 5:30 for home games in the playoffs in order to accommodate the networks? That always kills the A’s. Anyone remember game five of the 2000 ALDS in Oakland? There’s a reason games don’t start at 5:30. Killed the A’s that year.
[quote comment=”343830″]bye bye AFL!!
link
can we have a Requeim for a Uni bit?
(is AF2 to follow?)[/quote]
This is a sad day, as a fan of both Arena Football Team that called Detroit home. As for the AF2, it appears to be going strong with small arenas and much lower salaries so it should still go on.
[quote comment=”343863″]
15 different WS champs out of the last 22 champs, that’s the best ratio among the three major sports.[/quote]
Ouch. Seriously… ouch.
The reality of damn near any league in any sport is…
Some teams are always going to be near the top.
Some are always going to be near the bottom.
The rest rise and fall.
It’s the movement inside that template, from season to season, from decade to decade, that keeps things interesting.
Granted, not much fun if you’re in the market of a team, or a fan of team, that falls into the “going to be near the bottom” category, but…
it ain’t Little League where you get a trophy just for showing up.
—Ricko
[quote comment=\”343823\”][quote comment=\”343822\”][quote comment=\”343816\”][quote comment=\”343807\”]We now know they had these combos in the Caveman Era:
1. All-white.
2. Red on white.
3. Blue on white.
4. All-red.
5. Blue on red (yikes).
6. White on red (ditto).[/quote]
great work geeman
so…we have these confirmed
now we just need a blue
broncopants sighting….[/quote]and these are the unconfirmed[/quote]
That there middle one, that\’s what I saw. Remember the red-white waistband and the pants stripes. That\’s how I knew it sure wasn\’t the White Sox (well, that and the red visor). Starting to think maybe it was just the bp pitcher or someone…who wore a pair of \”samples\” he found in the clubhouse to be flashy for the ASG in \’81.
—Ricko[/quote]
Having no personal memory of said blue pants would make it shocking to actually see their existence. By \’81, the caveman font was retired (gone after \’77), but the team did have navy tops. The road uniform was all gray with \”Cleveland\” on the jerseys. This jersey was retired a few years later in favor of the navy \”Indians\” with gray pants. The major overhaul came in \’86 with the Chief Wahoo cap and the button up jerseys (the uniform in the 1st \”Major League.\”) I like the bullpen catcher \”sample\” theory. In 1985, the team had the batboys/ballboys wear the proposed \’86 uniforms during BP so the folks in charge could see what the set looked like from the stands. Could a similar situation have occurred with navy pants? Absolutely. Since the other combos have been verified, this one remains the great white whale. As my memory of the Manning photo of 33 years ago has been validated, can we not believe that Ricko\’s memory of this anomoly is not real? I am of the belief that no player in any game ever wore the navy pants, but will appoint myself to the crew that is going to get some kind of evidence, be it photographic or anicdotal. Happy hunting to all!
Here\’s an interesting shot:
link
Indians vs. Tigers during the caveman era (never called it that before the past couple of weeks, but I\’ll play along). Notice the Indians are navy over white, but the ballboys down the lines are red over red. That website, by the way, is a treasure trove of ballpark/arena shots.
[quote comment=”343855″]
There was a soccer game called Winning Eleven that I played on my PS2. They didn’t have the FIFA license so all of the teams had fake names, and close uniforms. I always took it upon myself to spend hours/days making sure each team was up to date with how the uniform looked complete with recreating the sponsor logo on the front of the jersey.[/quote]
Was that J-League Winning Eleven? I had a Japanese roommate in college and he had a Japanese PlayStation that would play all sorts of strange and wonderful foreign games. One of them was a soccer game called J-League Winning Eleven which used the actual players and teams, unis etc. of the Japanese pro soccer league.
[quote comment=”343868″]The reality of damn near any league in any sport is…
Granted, not much fun if you’re in the market of a team, or a fan of team, that falls into the “going to be near the bottom” category, but…
—Ricko[/quote]
Does this count for the Pirates too? Or is that just too cruel?
[quote comment=”343845″]Just wanted to give a shout out to everyone I met at the UW party in Cleveland, you all made a Pittsburgh boy feel real welcome!
Regarding an NYC UW trip, Paul, when you have the next one, I’ll be sure to make every attempt to get there.[/quote]
“Regarding an NYC UW trip, … I’ll be sure to make every attempt to get there”
ditto
[quote comment=”343871″][quote comment=”343868″]The reality of damn near any league in any sport is…
Granted, not much fun if you’re in the market of a team, or a fan of team, that falls into the “going to be near the bottom” category, but…
—Ricko[/quote]
Does this count for the Pirates too? Or is that just too cruel?[/quote]
Well, lately…
(funny you mention that, just last night I was watching BASEBALL TONIGHT thinking it would be fun to the see the Pirates be good again.)
[quote comment=”343851″][quote comment=”343844″][quote comment=”343840″][quote comment=”343757″][quote comment=”343752″][quote] Four World Series championships and six A.L. pennants. That’s hard to beat.[/quote]
but you could tie — if you’re the yankees, circa 1996-2003 – 4 WS, 6 AL pennants (granted, that’s the “six division” era, but doesn’t make getting to the WS any easier, in fact, harder) … that’s in a eight year span…and they won the AL east ’96, ’98, ’99, ’00, ’01, ’02, ’03, ’04, ’05 & ’06 – 10 division championships in 11 years
damn…no wonder everyone hates the yankees[/quote]
Definitely, you’re right about the Yankes. Not saying the A’s are the best. Just saying that the A’s have one of the best histories in major league baseball since the division era started. Plus they’ve been good in three different eras (1970s, late 1980s/early 1990s, early 2000s). Clearly the Yanks got the best of them in the playoffs (1981, 2000, 2001).[/quote]
Let’s not forget, it was, and is, much easier for big market teams like the Yankees and Red Sox to win championships than in the 1970s, when the huge gap in payroll disparity didn’t exist. Back when baseball(and not football) was actually the national pastime, small market teams flourished, despite having four fewer playoff spots available.
Hence, it’s quite accurate to say what the A’s did in the 1970s is more impressive than what the Yankees accomplished earlier this decade. It’s unlikely we’ll ever see a small market team repeat as champions either, much less qualify for the playoffs the following year.
The main reason the NFL is now the national pastime, is that they understood, going back to the early 1960s, the value of competitive balance. In the NFL, good management is the key reason teams win world titles, not the huge payroll. The A’s deserve credit for being successful in recent years, but even their great front office wasn’t good enough to reach a single World Series.
People who don’t understand the unfairness of baseball’s economic system love to bring up the Tampa Bay Rays, who enjoyed a miracle season in 2008. Problem was, they lost the WS, and it will be difficult for them to even make the playoffs next year. The Rays will inevitably lose their talented young players as time goes on. It’s a vicious cycle.[/quote]
yeah, but baseball has the most teams in big markets than the other sports, and baseball has a different WS winner almost every year. Sure, it’s tuff for a handful of small-market teams, but it’s only a handful. I’ve got expanded thoughts on the issue here:
link
excellent post coachie
i had about a 1,000 word post all typed out but i hit “refresh” because i’ve exceeded my quotas of rants for the day
i did have link last night, which is at least tertiarily related to this big/small market argument…
the problem aint the size of the market, it’s the size of the salaries…unless and until the owners (and the agents) can decide that maybe a guy who can throw 100 mph aint really worth $25M per year, we’ll never solve the problems facing baseball today[/quote]
Yes, that proves my point about the flawed system, MLB needs a salary cap just like the other sports. Since MLB will likely never have one because the players union is too strong, that means market size is EVERYTHING. When teams like the Yankees command many times the local TV rights revenues as teams like the Pirates, that’s flat out wrong, and can’t be justified. That is yet another difference in the game that wasn’t present decades ago.
Leagues are different than other business models because they are comprised of teams. While each team strives to win the title, in the end, the world champion isn’t the complete measuring stick of a league’s success.
The NFL is so much smarter than MLB, in the early 1960s, the owner of the New York Giants was approached for a big money TV deal. Instead of grabbing the money, Wellington Mara conferred with Pete Rozelle, and both agreed competitive balance would suffer if a big market team accepted such an arrangement. Both men had the vision to see the best way to grow the NFL was to encourage competitive balance, noy to give a few teams an unfair advantage simply because of their market size.
Fast forward several decades later, and the NFL is king, and is better managed to boot. Baseball’s loss in popularity can also be seen in the youth, who have been turning away from playing the game in this country for years. Ask yourself, when was the last time you drove around and saw kids playing baseball? Everything’s connected, and baseball will never regain it’s old popularity until a salary cap is installed. Of course, that is unlikely to ever happen. Unlike the vision of the NFL, MLB did not install a salary cap decades ago, when it had the opportunity. What comes around goes around.
[quote comment=”343862″]Though it’s not a surprise given their logo redesign, you can see the Philly 76ers new (old) jerseys here: link
I haven’t been able to find a pic of the front yet.[/quote]
My bad – they were shown at the press conference to announce Jrue Holiday’s signing: link
Actually, it just means many bigger market teams will be in the “usually near the top” category.
So far, hasn’t meant they’ll play each other for all the championships, though.
And that’s where is sorta falls apart. They sign the marquee players, they get the attention all season, yes…but generally all but one of them are sitting home in October. Sometimes all of them are.
—Ricko
Are the Cowboys one of the “haves” of the NFL?
Or the Mets in MLB?
You’d think so, but when Cowboys last win a playoff game? 1999 or something?
And the Mets’ past two Septembers…well.
Their circumstances guarantee they can pay more. Not that they’ll win more.
[quote comment=”343877″]Are the Cowboys one of the “haves” of the NFL?
Or the Mets in MLB?
You’d think so, but when Cowboys last win a playoff game? 1999 or something?
And the Mets’ past two Septembers…well.
Their circumstances guarantee they can pay more. Not that they’ll win more.[/quote]
Super Bowl XXX which was in 1996. Thanks for opening that wound Mr. Pearson..
[quote]the Mets’ past two Septembers…well.[/quote]
thanks for that too, mr. p
[quote comment=”343867″][quote comment=”343863″]
15 different WS champs out of the last 22 champs, that’s the best ratio among the three major sports.[/quote]
Ouch. Seriously… ouch.[/quote]
Sorry Teebz, if anything soccer can be counted on as the fourth biggest team sport in this country.
What can say…they’re just such fine examples of what I was talking about.
Plenty of others, I suppose, but ya gotta go with the premium stuff.
[quote comment=”343833″]
Note also that the A’s, according to this source, had the three standards — white, gold, green — along with all-gold and all-green, but they never mixed and matched that we know of.
[/quote]
Does anyone else remember the A’s white jerseys being called their “polar bear whites”? Somehow I think I heard a TV announcer (Curt Gowdy perhaps?) use this phrase.
[quote comment=”343825″]My debate with DJ Gallo is now up:
link
“And that was my introduction to how playing fantasy sports turns you into a moron.”
I like it already.
[quote comment=”343867″][quote comment=”343863″]
15 different WS champs out of the last 22 champs, that’s the best ratio among the three major sports.[/quote]
Ouch. Seriously… ouch.[/quote]
Yeah, but after the Blue Jays in 1993 only one small market team has won a title. One year they did it with money another year they did it with player development. And both years they blew it up as soon as the confetti stopped falling.
[quote comment=”343877″]Are the Cowboys one of the “haves” of the NFL?
Or the Mets in MLB?
You’d think so, but when Cowboys last win a playoff game? 1999 or something?
And the Mets’ past two Septembers…well.
Their circumstances guarantee they can pay more. Not that they’ll win more.[/quote]
But that’s the difference, Ricko. Since the smarter NFL has a salary cap, the Cowboys can rise or fall on their management, not the system. In baseball, big market teams like the Mets have a built in, unfair advantage which helps them win more over time. Because of the unequal local TV economic structure, teams like the Mets will always contend. I never said New York/Boston teams are locks to win it all every year.
Please tell me the last time a small market team won back to back world titles this decade, or was even close to. That’s a serious problem, and it speaks volumes about the health of the sport, especially when comparing it to football.
Guess we’d better define some terms.
Where do D-Backs fit in, for example?
Or the Rockies?
And, yeah, smaller markets don’t always win W-S, but they been there.
This really isn’t about stomping and whining,
“Howcum WE never get to wi-in???”, is it?
—Ricko
[quote comment=”343880″][quote comment=”343867″][quote comment=”343863″]
15 different WS champs out of the last 22 champs, that’s the best ratio among the three major sports.[/quote]
Ouch. Seriously… ouch.[/quote]
Sorry Teebz, if anything soccer can be counted on as the fourth biggest team sport in this country.[/quote]
I’m sure that 24 NHL teams would certainly agree with that comment.
How many MLS teams are there total? Minus those few in Canada?
[quote comment=”343885″][quote comment=”343877″]Are the Cowboys one of the “haves” of the NFL?
Or the Mets in MLB?
You’d think so, but when Cowboys last win a playoff game? 1999 or something?
And the Mets’ past two Septembers…well.
Their circumstances guarantee they can pay more. Not that they’ll win more.[/quote]
But that’s the difference, Ricko. Since the smarter NFL has a salary cap, the Cowboys can rise or fall on their management, not the system. In baseball, big market teams like the Mets have a built in, unfair advantage which helps them win more over time. Because of the unequal local TV economic structure, teams like the Mets will always contend. I never said New York/Boston teams are locks to win it all every year.
Please tell me the last time a small market team won back to back world titles this decade, or was even close to. That’s a serious problem, and it speaks volumes about the health of the sport, especially when comparing it to football.[/quote]
1992-1993 Toronto Blue Jays. Small/mid-markets had a good run from 89-93.
[quote comment=”343882″][quote comment=”343833″]
Note also that the A’s, according to this source, had the three standards — white, gold, green — along with all-gold and all-green, but they never mixed and matched that we know of.
[/quote]
Does anyone else remember the A’s white jerseys being called their “polar bear whites”? Somehow I think I heard a TV announcer (Curt Gowdy perhaps?) use this phrase.[/quote]
I’ve heard wedding gown white, Pacific Ocean green, and Fort Knox gold for the A’s 1970s unis.
[quote comment=”343886″]Guess we’d better define some terms.
Where do D-Backs fit in, for example?
Or the Rockies?
And, yeah, smaller markets don’t always win W-S, but they been there.
This really isn’t about stomping and whining,
“Howcum WE never get to wi-in???”, is it?
—Ricko[/quote]
Never said small market teams can’t make the world series once in a while, that wasn’t the point of my posts. The reality is that baseball was more popular when small market teams actually WON and were serious title contenders for many years, just like the NFL. And that was in an era when only four playoff berths were awarded, a much more difficult achievement in those days. BTW, what happened to Arizona and Colorado since those miracle years? Do you honestly think the Rockies will beat LA or Chicago? Ain’t gonna happen.
[quote comment=”343885″][quote comment=”343877″]Are the Cowboys one of the “haves” of the NFL?
Or the Mets in MLB?
You’d think so, but when Cowboys last win a playoff game? 1999 or something?
And the Mets’ past two Septembers…well.
Their circumstances guarantee they can pay more. Not that they’ll win more.[/quote]
But that’s the difference, Ricko. Since the smarter NFL has a salary cap, the Cowboys can rise or fall on their management, not the system. In baseball, big market teams like the Mets have a built in, unfair advantage which helps them win more over time. Because of the unequal local TV economic structure, teams like the Mets will always contend. I never said New York/Boston teams are locks to win it all every year.
Please tell me the last time a small market team won back to back world titles this decade, or was even close to. That’s a serious problem, and it speaks volumes about the health of the sport, especially when comparing it to football.[/quote]
How many small market teams won back-to-back W-S titles in the ’50s, or the ’60s? Not saying there weren’t any, just saying two-peats are a tall order any time.
Same point I made earlier. Some always at top. Others always at bottom. Rest rise and fall. Don’t care what you do, is gonna be that way. Thankfully, to some degree, the teams change places over time.
btw, I totally agree with you about such things as never seeing kids out playing catch. Baseball has a lot of work to do. I just think the core issue is exploding salaries and the owners inability to keep from falling all over themselves to pay .260 hitters $5-10 million a year…not necessarily market differential.
[quote comment=”343886″]Guess we’d better define some terms.
Where do D-Backs fit in, for example?
Or the Rockies?
And, yeah, smaller markets don’t always win W-S, but they been there.
This really isn’t about stomping and whining,
“Howcum WE never get to wi-in???”, is it?
—Ricko[/quote]
Good question about defining markets.
And yes, it is a little bit about whining. The thing is not only can the large markets afford players perceived to be the best in the sport they can also afford to make mistakes on big money guys then jettison them if it doesn’t work out and sign other big money guys.
On the flip side look at the Pirates. It’s not like they’ve never given out a big contract but the ones they’ve given have kind of blown up on them (J. Kendall, J. wilson). If a team like the A’s makes a 90M dollar mistake their sunk for years to come. If the Yanks make the same mistake they spin the guy off and bring in hot slugger of the the year #2.
Meanwhile teams with small budgets who can make short runs by being smart end up losing out on players they identified and developed. Ask KC about Dye, Damon, Beltran, etc. Or the A’s about Giambi, Mac, Hudson, Mulder, Zito, Tejada and so on. That’s where the whining comes in for me. I wish we could keep a few of the guys our teams have developed.
[quote comment=”343869″][quote comment=\”343823\”][quote comment=\”343822\”][quote comment=\”343816\”][quote comment=\”343807\”]We now know they had these combos in the Caveman Era:
1. All-white.
2. Red on white.
3. Blue on white.
4. All-red.
5. Blue on red (yikes).
6. White on red (ditto).[/quote]
great work geeman
so…we have these confirmed
now we just need a blue
broncopants sighting….[/quote]and these are the unconfirmed[/quote]
That there middle one, that\’s what I saw. Remember the red-white waistband and the pants stripes. That\’s how I knew it sure wasn\’t the White Sox (well, that and the red visor). Starting to think maybe it was just the bp pitcher or someone…who wore a pair of \”samples\” he found in the clubhouse to be flashy for the ASG in \’81.
—Ricko[/quote]
Having no personal memory of said blue pants would make it shocking to actually see their existence. By \’81, the caveman font was retired (gone after \’77), but the team did have navy tops. The road uniform was all gray with \”Cleveland\” on the jerseys. This jersey was retired a few years later in favor of the navy \”Indians\” with gray pants. The major overhaul came in \’86 with the Chief Wahoo cap and the button up jerseys (the uniform in the 1st \”Major League.\”) I like the bullpen catcher \”sample\” theory. In 1985, the team had the batboys/ballboys wear the proposed \’86 uniforms during BP so the folks in charge could see what the set looked like from the stands. Could a similar situation have occurred with navy pants? Absolutely. Since the other combos have been verified, this one remains the great white whale. As my memory of the Manning photo of 33 years ago has been validated, can we not believe that Ricko\’s memory of this anomoly is not real? I am of the belief that no player in any game ever wore the navy pants, but will appoint myself to the crew that is going to get some kind of evidence, be it photographic or anicdotal. Happy hunting to all!
Here\’s an interesting shot:
link
Indians vs. Tigers during the caveman era (never called it that before the past couple of weeks, but I\’ll play along). Notice the Indians are navy over white, but the ballboys down the lines are red over red. That website, by the way, is a treasure trove of ballpark/arena shots.[/quote]
Shake —
This is awesome stuff, but the link won’t open for me. Can you re-do?
Funny story about bat boys: I was a bat boy once for a minor league Class A team in a doubleheader. They had white, blue, and red jerseys, which they wore alternately with white pants home and away. The team (and I) wore blue jerseys for the first game and the team won. I switched to red for the next game; the team stayed blue and jumped my case for cursing them by not staying with what had worked in the first game; the team lost. But I knew I’d never be a BB again and wanted to wear both jerseys. I’d do it the same way again, only maybe reverse the order. (I had once seen on TV when the Giants wore different jerseys — orange and black — in a doubleheader and thought it was a great idea.)
I guess this is the basic point of my thoughts:
The Twins, for example, hang around contesting for the division most of the year, most every year.
I could get get pissed and think, “Those damn White Sox have so much money.”
But I prefer to think, “Oh, Jesus, what would it be like if I were stuck watching the Natinals all the time?”
So, look around, see where you REALLY are in the “getting screwed” line. Or just move to New York, where the fans are happy, happy, happy all the time.
LOL
–Ricko
Shake, you’ve inspired me. For a year now I have mentioned here about my memory of an all-pins affair between the Pirates and Mets at Shea in the summer of ’77 or ’78. Last week someone said he found visual proof in the New York Times archive. (The game took place the same day or so as the Indians’ blue-on-red game. Coincidence? Madness.) Tomorrow I’ll walk a few blocks down the street to the public library and see if I can find it, print it, and post it.
Teebz, I don’t mean to offend hockey. But it’s a bit unfair because soccer fans in this country include those who watch the MLS, those who watch foreign leagues and those who watch international matches. By that definition, soccer fans in America dwarf hockey fans. Moreover, the attendance figures for MLS teams, while not as healthy as the NHL’s, compare favorably.
And Ricko, I have to disagree with you about the salary issue. I don’t think sky-high salaries have hurt the NBA for example. And I think it’s unfair to attack the salaries of professional athletes so long as we continue to watch and attend games. They should get their fair share of the money we pump into sports. The same way that movie and TV stars get theirs. Is Ryan Seacrest worth $40 mil? Of course not, but we make “American Idol” the highest rated show on TV, so why shouldn’t he get his share of the $ the show makes.
[quote comment=”343892″][quote comment=”343886″]Guess we’d better define some terms.
Where do D-Backs fit in, for example?
Or the Rockies?
And, yeah, smaller markets don’t always win W-S, but they been there.
This really isn’t about stomping and whining,
“Howcum WE never get to wi-in???”, is it?
—Ricko[/quote]
Good question about defining markets.
And yes, it is a little bit about whining. The thing is not only can the large markets afford players perceived to be the best in the sport they can also afford to make mistakes on big money guys then jettison them if it doesn’t work out and sign other big money guys.
On the flip side look at the Pirates. It’s not like they’ve never given out a big contract but the ones they’ve given have kind of blown up on them (J. Kendall, J. wilson). If a team like the A’s makes a 90M dollar mistake their sunk for years to come. If the Yanks make the same mistake they spin the guy off and bring in hot slugger of the the year #2.
Meanwhile teams with small budgets who can make short runs by being smart end up losing out on players they identified and developed. Ask KC about Dye, Damon, Beltran, etc. Or the A’s about Giambi, Mac, Hudson, Mulder, Zito, Tejada and so on. That’s where the whining comes in for me. I wish we could keep a few of the guys our teams have developed.[/quote]
how do you feel about all the world series the cubs have won in the past century?
surely their big market advantage has ruined the competitive balance in baseball
it’s NOT just about eating mistakes…there are some owners who are just as happy to pocket george steinhitler’s luxury tax money rather than spending it on ANY player, cuz they make a profit…figuring “they’re gonna lose spending $50 million, they can lose spending only $25”
these are unique business models where the owners can “claim” poverty and bitch and moan about the yankees or the mets, when in reality these are toys for billionaires to employ multi-millionaires and really…the next time i hear ANY owner cry poor, he can gladly trade places with about 99.99% of america and not be particularly happy about it
i feel bad for the residents of the small market cities, but please don’t act like it’s the residents of chicago or new york who’ve put your owner into such an untenable situation as to always have your team suck…as the marlins and d-backs displayed, get an owner who’s willing to play into the economy of baseball as it now exists and you can have your winning team
but these billionaires didn’t get rich by being stupid…they’d rather pocket your money and put a shitty (meaning, underpaid, obviously) team out there year after year and turn a profit than to actually ya know, WIN something and lose money … the two guys who did that ‘broke up the team’ shortly thereafter (because winning didn’t appeal to them so much when they lost money doing it) — see that’s the problem … when you can make more money by losing than by winning, you won’t spend the money to win
if you want to bitch and whine about baseball, and you have every right to do so, bitch about the outrageous salaries for mediocre players being doled out and the preposterous salaries for the good ones
bring those down and you’ll have a much more level playing field (which is really what you want, right?)
but don’t blame the new york fan or the chicago fan anymore than we blame the pirates fan for being too lame or poor to support a team — because you know neither is true
That Texans schedule is messed up. They say they’ll wear red jerseys and red pants in a game, but they show a picture of them wearing white jerseys and blue pants? WTF? Or white jersey/blue pants and the photo is a guy in all red?
Come ON. I couldn’t get a job in the NFL because I was told they were looking for a very specific skill set (i.e. – you had worked in the NFL). But it seems to me that’s b.s.
[quote comment=”343896″]Teebz, I don’t mean to offend hockey. But it’s a bit unfair because soccer fans in this country include those who watch the MLS, those who watch foreign leagues and those who watch international matches. By that definition, soccer fans in America dwarf hockey fans. Moreover, the attendance figures for MLS teams, while not as healthy as the NHL’s, compare favorably.
And Ricko, I have to disagree with you about the salary issue. I don’t think sky-high salaries have hurt the NBA for example. And I think it’s unfair to attack the salaries of professional athletes so long as we continue to watch and attend games. They should get their fair share of the money we pump into sports. The same way that movie and TV stars get theirs. Is Ryan Seacrest worth $40 mil? Of course not, but we make “American Idol” the highest rated show on TV, so why shouldn’t he get his share of the $ the show makes.[/quote]
I was talking about baseball, specifically. Big name stars ARE worth it. The IS the entertainment industry, to be sure. Ted Danson got $11 mil to play Sam Malone for one more season (the last) of “Cheers”. Of course he was worth it, as a commodity, as a lead dog. But ratchetting up the salaries of journeymen infielders means most everyone has to pay journeymen infielders that way….which helps take smaller market teams out of picture for bigger name players. Lowering the bar for “superstar” dollars doesn’t help anyone…except the recipients and their agents.
—Ricko
[quote comment=\”343898\”]That Texans schedule is messed up. They say they\’ll wear red jerseys and red pants in a game, but they show a picture of them wearing white jerseys and blue pants? WTF? Or white jersey/blue pants and the photo is a guy in all red?
Come ON. I couldn\’t get a job in the NFL because I was told they were looking for a very specific skill set (i.e. – you had worked in the NFL). But it seems to me that\’s b.s.[/quote]
I noticed the same thing. There’s no point to putting up 20 photos of Texans uniforms if they are not going to match the game uniforms listed next to them…
[quote comment=”343866″][quote comment=”343830″]bye bye AFL!!
link
can we have a Requeim for a Uni bit?
(is AF2 to follow?)[/quote]
This is a sad day, as a fan of both Arena Football Team that called Detroit home. As for the AF2, it appears to be going strong with small arenas and much lower salaries so it should still go on.[/quote]
FYI, the idea for arena football was conceived during a game of…indoor soccer (a NY Arrows game at that, Phil). See, not only did the MISL almost become a truly major league, it spawned another creation that lasted 20 years. ;)
Re: A’s stadium
link
[quote comment=”343898″]That Texans schedule is messed up. They say they’ll wear red jerseys and red pants in a game, but they show a picture of them wearing white jerseys and blue pants? WTF? Or white jersey/blue pants and the photo is a guy in all red?
Come ON. I couldn’t get a job in the NFL because I was told they were looking for a very specific skill set (i.e. – you had worked in the NFL). But it seems to me that’s b.s.[/quote]
It looked to me like they were picutres of Houston playing the team they are scheduled to play that day and not what jersey they will be wearing. Example, they have a picture of the Texans playing the Lions next to the part of the schedule they are playing the Lions.
[quote comment=”343901″][quote comment=”343866″][quote comment=”343830″]bye bye AFL!!
link
can we have a Requeim for a Uni bit?
(is AF2 to follow?)[/quote]
This is a sad day, as a fan of both Arena Football Team that called Detroit home. As for the AF2, it appears to be going strong with small arenas and much lower salaries so it should still go on.[/quote]
FYI, the idea for arena football was conceived during a game of…indoor soccer (a NY Arrows game at that, Phil). See, not only did the MISL almost become a truly major league, it spawned another creation that lasted 20 years. ;)[/quote]
Yes, Jim Foster sketched it out on the back of a manilla envolpe.
link
But no market is truly efficient. If the money is there to be divided up, as it is in baseball, then there will be overpaid players. You can’t objectively divide between players who are worth $15 mil a year and perform well over their contract and players who don’t. Considering the money that is in the sport, the minimum salary is where it should be.
[quote comment=”343896″]Teebz, I don’t mean to offend hockey. But it’s a bit unfair because soccer fans in this country include those who watch the MLS, those who watch foreign leagues and those who watch international matches. By that definition, soccer fans in America dwarf hockey fans. Moreover, the attendance figures for MLS teams, while not as healthy as the NHL’s, compare favorably.[/quote]
It has nothing to do with fanbases. You said it was the fourth biggest professional team sport. Which is a complete fabrication. It is not. Not even close. The NHL is still larger.
Otherwise, the EPL is the largest sport there is. When players are being moved – not signed, but moved – for hundreds of millions of dollars, the EPL is the largest league there is in terms of money moving around. But your argument wasn’t about European sports either. It was about the North American professional sports.
Fanbases? Soccer will always have the largest. It’s the world’s sport. But that’s not what you’re comparing in your blog or this debate.
I have a Marty Havlat Blackhawks T-shirt jersey (I don’t like t-shirt jerseys but it was a Christmas present so I make due.) Since Havlat is now gone is there any way to remove the name on the back without completely ruining it? I want to turn it into a Bob Probert one.
[quote comment=”343905″][quote comment=”343901″][quote comment=”343866″][quote comment=”343830″]bye bye AFL!!
link
can we have a Requeim for a Uni bit?
(is AF2 to follow?)[/quote]
This is a sad day, as a fan of both Arena Football Team that called Detroit home. As for the AF2, it appears to be going strong with small arenas and much lower salaries so it should still go on.[/quote]
FYI, the idea for arena football was conceived during a game of…indoor soccer (a NY Arrows game at that, Phil). See, not only did the MISL almost become a truly major league, it spawned another creation that lasted 20 years. ;)[/quote]
Yes, Jim Foster sketched it out on the back of a manilla envolpe.
link
Somewhere at home I have a magazine article about the first test game in Rockford, IL, I believe it was…with a few B&W photos from the game. From a distance, though, cuz they were trying to show how the game looked on such a small stage. Was either SPORT or INSIDE SPORTS, if I remember correctly.
—Ricko
[quote comment=”343909″][quote comment=”343905″][quote comment=”343901″][quote comment=”343866″][quote comment=”343830″]bye bye AFL!!
link
can we have a Requeim for a Uni bit?
(is AF2 to follow?)[/quote]
This is a sad day, as a fan of both Arena Football Team that called Detroit home. As for the AF2, it appears to be going strong with small arenas and much lower salaries so it should still go on.[/quote]
FYI, the idea for arena football was conceived during a game of…indoor soccer (a NY Arrows game at that, Phil). See, not only did the MISL almost become a truly major league, it spawned another creation that lasted 20 years. ;)[/quote]
Yes, Jim Foster sketched it out on the back of a manilla envolpe.
link
Somewhere at home I have a magazine article about the first test game in Rockford, IL, I believe it was…with a few B&W photos from the game. From a distance, though, cuz they were trying to show how the game looked on such a small stage. Was either SPORT or INSIDE SPORTS, if I remember correctly.
—Ricko[/quote]
I have seen color pictures of the Rockford game, it was weird it had acutal sidelines. I can’t remember where I saw them.
Hmmm….I may have to dig out that first-ever Arena telecast from ’87 (Chicago Bruisers hosting….Denver Dynamite, maybe?) that I have on VHS and watch it tonight.
More bicycle pants shenanigans in training camp:
0e1ce06431c741faaaa285a1cc64f6f3.49ers_camp_football_cajc110.jpg
link
link
link
link
link
[quote comment=”343912″]More bicycle pants shenanigans in training camp:
0e1ce06431c741faaaa285a1cc64f6f3.49ers_camp_football_cajc110.jpg
link
link
“We’re talkin’ ’bout PRACTICE.”
–A. Iverson
(For the record, Chili Davis wore Zubaz shorts, a navy blue Twins teeshirt and a white visor, backwards, for off-day Metrodome bp prior to the World Series)
[quote comment=”343897″][quote comment=”343892″][quote comment=”343886″]Guess we’d better define some terms.
Where do D-Backs fit in, for example?
Or the Rockies?
And, yeah, smaller markets don’t always win W-S, but they been there.
This really isn’t about stomping and whining,
“Howcum WE never get to wi-in???”, is it?
—Ricko[/quote]
Good question about defining markets.
And yes, it is a little bit about whining. The thing is not only can the large markets afford players perceived to be the best in the sport they can also afford to make mistakes on big money guys then jettison them if it doesn’t work out and sign other big money guys.
On the flip side look at the Pirates. It’s not like they’ve never given out a big contract but the ones they’ve given have kind of blown up on them (J. Kendall, J. wilson). If a team like the A’s makes a 90M dollar mistake their sunk for years to come. If the Yanks make the same mistake they spin the guy off and bring in hot slugger of the the year #2.
Meanwhile teams with small budgets who can make short runs by being smart end up losing out on players they identified and developed. Ask KC about Dye, Damon, Beltran, etc. Or the A’s about Giambi, Mac, Hudson, Mulder, Zito, Tejada and so on. That’s where the whining comes in for me. I wish we could keep a few of the guys our teams have developed.[/quote]
how do you feel about all the world series the cubs have won in the past century?
surely their big market advantage has ruined the competitive balance in baseball
it’s NOT just about eating mistakes…there are some owners who are just as happy to pocket george steinhitler’s luxury tax money rather than spending it on ANY player, cuz they make a profit…figuring “they’re gonna lose spending $50 million, they can lose spending only $25”
these are unique business models where the owners can “claim” poverty and bitch and moan about the yankees or the mets, when in reality these are toys for billionaires to employ multi-millionaires and really…the next time i hear ANY owner cry poor, he can gladly trade places with about 99.99% of america and not be particularly happy about it
i feel bad for the residents of the small market cities, but please don’t act like it’s the residents of chicago or new york who’ve put your owner into such an untenable situation as to always have your team suck…as the marlins and d-backs displayed, get an owner who’s willing to play into the economy of baseball as it now exists and you can have your winning team
but these billionaires didn’t get rich by being stupid…they’d rather pocket your money and put a shitty (meaning, underpaid, obviously) team out there year after year and turn a profit than to actually ya know, WIN something and lose money … the two guys who did that ‘broke up the team’ shortly thereafter (because winning didn’t appeal to them so much when they lost money doing it) — see that’s the problem … when you can make more money by losing than by winning, you won’t spend the money to win
if you want to bitch and whine about baseball, and you have every right to do so, bitch about the outrageous salaries for mediocre players being doled out and the preposterous salaries for the good ones
bring those down and you’ll have a much more level playing field (which is really what you want, right?)
but don’t blame the new york fan or the chicago fan anymore than we blame the pirates fan for being too lame or poor to support a team — because you know neither is true[/quote]
Yeah, that’s why I like the idea of a salary floor to go along with a cap. Of course it’s not just about eating mistakes. It’s not just about anything. I was bringing up another piece of the small market/big market puzzle.
As for the Cubs, well heck that’s just bad luck for the most part eh?
I’m not sure where the “blaming the fans” thing came from. I didn’t say that anyone should blame the fans. What do the fans have to do with it? I did say owners shouldn’t gouge the fans. Did I miss something there?
Finally, I miss Walter Haas. He was like Steinbrenner but without all the yapping. Oh, and here’s a shout out to Eddie D too. We miss you Eddie.
[quote comment=”343848″][quote comment=”343830″]bye bye AFL!!
link
can we have a Requeim for a Uni bit?
(is AF2 to follow?)[/quote]
Good riddance! That was some lame ass shit. Only a fraction of a step better than ESPN’s lame ass “American Gladiators”.[/quote]
It’s a little sad that the AFL is gone. I wasn’t a huge fan of it, but it allowed guys the chance to play for the love of the game whether or not they were making the big bucks. The game was quirky at best, and definitely a niche sport, but it was fan friendly and meant a lot to the guys on the field.
By the way no dissing the American Gladiators. I grew up watching that every Sunday morning and even had the game for NES. Steroid filled junkies shooting tennis balls at dudes from an air cannon while the other dude tries to shoot a nerf bow and arrow at a target–what a concept!
[quote comment=”343916″][quote comment=”343848″][quote comment=”343830″]bye bye AFL!!
link
can we have a Requeim for a Uni bit?
(is AF2 to follow?)[/quote]
Good riddance! That was some lame ass shit. Only a fraction of a step better than ESPN’s lame ass “American Gladiators”.[/quote]
It’s a little sad that the AFL is gone. I wasn’t a huge fan of it, but it allowed guys the chance to play for the love of the game whether or not they were making the big bucks. The game was quirky at best, and definitely a niche sport, but it was fan friendly and meant a lot to the guys on the field.
By the way no dissing the American Gladiators. I grew up watching that every Sunday morning and even had the game for NES. Steroid filled junkies shooting tennis balls at dudes from an air cannon while the other dude tries to shoot a nerf bow and arrow at a target–what a concept![/quote]
You know what made the AFL great? It was fan friendly. The home team had to come out and sign autographs for a 1/2 hour after games. If you were in the front row the players, coaches and officials would talk to you. And you got to keep a football that went in the stands during the game.
It has nothing to do with fanbases. You said it was the fourth biggest professional team sport. Which is a complete fabrication. It is not. Not even close. The NHL is still larger.
Otherwise, the EPL is the largest sport there is. When players are being moved – not signed, but [quote comment=”343907″][quote comment=”343896″]Teebz, I don’t mean to offend hockey. But it’s a bit unfair because soccer fans in this country include those who watch the MLS, those who watch foreign leagues and those who watch international matches. By that definition, soccer fans in America dwarf hockey fans. Moreover, the attendance figures for MLS teams, while not as healthy as the NHL’s, compare favorably.[/quote]
It has nothing to do with fanbases. You said it was the fourth biggest professional team sport. Which is a complete fabrication. It is not. Not even close. The NHL is still larger.
Otherwise, the EPL is the largest sport there is. When players are being moved – not signed, but moved – for hundreds of millions of dollars, the EPL is the largest league there is in terms of money moving around. But your argument wasn’t about European sports either. It was about the North American professional sports.
Fanbases? Soccer will always have the largest. It’s the world’s sport. But that’s not what you’re comparing in your blog or this debate.[/quote]
It is my belief that there are more American fans of soccer than there are American fans of hockey. We can disagree over the qualification for “4th biggest team sport in America” (# of american teams, etc). But in terms of followers of a type of team sport, I think there are more American followers of soccer than there are of hockey, and to me that makes soccer the fourth biggest spectator team sport in America.
[quote comment=”343863″]15 different WS champs out of the last 22 champs, that’s the best ratio among the three major sports.[/quote]
4 major sports
[quote comment=”343891″][quote comment=”343885″][quote comment=”343877″]Are the Cowboys one of the “haves” of the NFL?
Or the Mets in MLB?
You’d think so, but when Cowboys last win a playoff game? 1999 or something?
And the Mets’ past two Septembers…well.
Their circumstances guarantee they can pay more. Not that they’ll win more.[/quote]
But that’s the difference, Ricko. Since the smarter NFL has a salary cap, the Cowboys can rise or fall on their management, not the system. In baseball, big market teams like the Mets have a built in, unfair advantage which helps them win more over time. Because of the unequal local TV economic structure, teams like the Mets will always contend. I never said New York/Boston teams are locks to win it all every year.
Please tell me the last time a small market team won back to back world titles this decade, or was even close to. That’s a serious problem, and it speaks volumes about the health of the sport, especially when comparing it to football.[/quote]
How many small market teams won back-to-back W-S titles in the ’50s, or the ’60s? Not saying there weren’t any, just saying two-peats are a tall order any time.
Same point I made earlier. Some always at top. Others always at bottom. Rest rise and fall. Don’t care what you do, is gonna be that way. Thankfully, to some degree, the teams change places over time.
btw, I totally agree with you about such things as never seeing kids out playing catch. Baseball has a lot of work to do. I just think the core issue is exploding salaries and the owners inability to keep from falling all over themselves to pay .260 hitters $5-10 million a year…not necessarily market differential.[/quote]
I don’t know that market size had as much of an impact in the pre-freeagency days.
Are there any all-league minimum fantasy leagues out there?
Re. parity in MLB, I just have two thoughts that I don’t think have bene expressed above:
1. I don’t think winning world series is the right test for whether a team has been successful for not. I know they’re the ultimate prize, but it seems to me that the most important thing to keep the fans interested is the belief that their team has a CHANCe to win the WS.
For example, the Giants, Cubs and Pirates have won the same number of WS over the last 30 years, but the Giants and Cubs are competive every year and the Pirates aren’t. A team going into every season without hope seems to me to be more damaging to its long-term health than a sustained streak of not winning the WS.
Even though the Rays, Tigers and Rockies didn’t win the WS in their recent runs, they gave their fans hope that they could compete. That’s pretty important.
2. I don’t get “small market” complaints at all. It has always struck me as a failure to market the team. Particularly when you hear it from places like Toronto, or Montreal, or especially Miami, which are all among the biggest metropolitan areas in north America. It seems easier sometimes to blame the size of your city for small crowds and a small following, even when its not true.
Finally, a link to Ian Hunter, specifically for everyone who’s only heard the TPOTUSA/Drew Carey version of the song:
link
No pictures but Lastings Milledge is wearing stirrups for the Buccos, albeit backwards. I know he wore them a couple times back in ’07 with the Mets, but I believe this is the first time he’s worn them since.
[quote comment=”343918″]
It is my belief that there are more American fans of soccer than there are American fans of hockey. We can disagree over the qualification for “4th biggest team sport in America” (# of american teams, etc). But in terms of followers of a type of team sport, I think there are more American followers of soccer than there are of hockey, and to me that makes soccer the fourth biggest spectator team sport in America.[/quote]
You can believe that. I have no problem with that.
However, when Americans can only name David Beckham, Alexi Lalas, Mia Hamm-Garciaparra, and Brandi Chastain as the biggest soccer stars in America, you have a problem. Three of those four don’t play any longer.
I guarantee you that people in Anytown, USA know who Alexander Ovechkin is and who he plays for, but only have a slight clue who Guillermo Barros Schelotto is and who he plays for. I’ll wager $100 that less than half of 10 random people on the street you ask can tell you who won the MLS Championship last season. I’ll also wager that amount that more people know who won the Stanley Cup.
Professional soccer fans in the US exist. They just exist in smaller numbers than hockey fans. And in far fewer places.
[quote comment=”343924″][quote comment=”343918″]
It is my belief that there are more American fans of soccer than there are American fans of hockey. We can disagree over the qualification for “4th biggest team sport in America” (# of american teams, etc). But in terms of followers of a type of team sport, I think there are more American followers of soccer than there are of hockey, and to me that makes soccer the fourth biggest spectator team sport in America.[/quote]
You can believe that. I have no problem with that.
However, when Americans can only name David Beckham, Alexi Lalas, Mia Hamm-Garciaparra, and Brandi Chastain as the biggest soccer stars in America, you have a problem. Three of those four don’t play any longer.
I guarantee you that people in Anytown, USA know who Alexander Ovechkin is and who he plays for, but only have a slight clue who Guillermo Barros Schelotto is and who he plays for. I’ll wager $100 that less than half of 10 random people on the street you ask can tell you who won the MLS Championship last season. I’ll also wager that amount that more people know who won the Stanley Cup.
Professional soccer fans in the US exist. They just exist in smaller numbers than hockey fans. And in far fewer places.[/quote]
And your argument for the four major sports is still NOT about fanbases as I stated before. You were looking at market sizes. And since the NHL outdrew the NBA in attendance this year (NBA – 21,389,899 vs NHL – 21,495,541 {all numbers compliments of ESPN}), I’d say there are more soccer fans than NBA fans, making the NHL 3rd place in the four/five major sports.
[quote comment=”343734″]The Cleveland Indians had some questionable color scheme uniform decisions during that mid 70s era, they were among the worst teams in baseball during that time. The only aspect of that uni I liked was the font style on the jersey, it was unique, and they should have retained it.[/quote]
Actually, that “Flintstones” styled wordmark was about as bad as the Tribe was back then.
[quote comment=”343763″]in the world of hypotheticals, a’s 72-74 teams versus yankees 98-00 teams
(last two teams to win 3 straight WS’s)
that might have been fun to watch[/quote]
The BRM of 75-76 would destroy both
[quote comment=”343819″][quote comment=”343816″][quote comment=”343807″]We now know they had these combos in the Caveman Era:
1. All-white.
2. Red on white.
3. Blue on white.
4. All-red.
5. Blue on red (yikes).
6. White on red (ditto).[/quote]
great work geeman
so…we have link
now we just need a blue
broncopants sighting….[/quote]Any Clevelanders know how to get a hold of Cavs announcer Joe Tait? He used to call the Tribe games then. I’ll bet if anyone knows, Joe knows. Maybe he’ll talk to Paul.[/quote]
The person who would know or be able to find out is Bob Dibiasio, Tribe VP of PR, who’s been with the organization since the mid-70’s. I’m sure he can be reached c/o the Indians.
[quote comment=”343845″]Just wanted to give a shout out to everyone I met at the UW party in Cleveland, you all made a Pittsburgh boy feel real welcome!
Regarding an NYC UW trip, Paul, when you have the next one, I’ll be sure to make every attempt to get there.[/quote]
A good time was had by all! One of these days I’ll bust out my Denis Lemieux sweater and venture to Johnstown to see see the War Memorial-
[quote]I’m not sure where the “blaming the fans” thing came from. I didn’t say that anyone should blame the fans. What do the fans have to do with it? I did say owners shouldn’t gouge the fans. Did I miss something there?[/quote]
sorry berto, i surely didn’t mean to direct that one at you
i had another 7,000 word essay all typed out (not regarding your point, just in terms of a general rant), but i hit F5 because i’ve already said too much on this non-uniform topic
it’s all good
Â
/mama knows but she don’t care
[quote comment=”343846″]
Well that’s the thing: The Fins have been bad for a few years now that the league hasn’t put them on MNF or SNF. [/quote]
11-5 and a Division title is bad?
but don’t blame the new york fan or the chicago fan anymore than we blame the pirates fan for being too lame or poor to support a team – because you know neither is true
I haven’t seen anyone blaming the fans.
The Pirates’ problem is bad management. But for clubs like the Twins and Athletics, the revenue disparities make it impossible for them to keep their good teams together.
I don’t think that it was a coincidence that between the establishment of the draft in the ’60s and the Yankees’ enormous MSG contract in the ’90s, the only Yankee championships came at the beginning of free agency when Steinbrenner ran and spent some of the money burning a hole in his pocket. (Other teams realized that they could afford to pay more in salaries as well, and there were another 15 years of parity.) Now, when top-of-the-market players become free agents, there are a half-dozen teams that are candidates to sign them; those of us who are fans of the other clubs just sigh in frustration.
The Pirates are being no-hit after 7 innings by Arizona’s Petit.
[quote comment=”343931″][quote comment=”343846″]
Well that’s the thing: The Fins have been bad for a few years now that the league hasn’t put them on MNF or SNF. [/quote]
11-5 and a Division title is bad?[/quote]
No, 11-5 and a Division Title is good. Except that for a few years PRIOR to that, most notably the year they went 1-15, the Fins’ didn’t really warrant being put on MNF or SNF.
We’re up to 196 posts and not one of these has mentioned the Denver Broncos and whether they wore brown helmets?
What have you been talking about all day?
:-)
Washburn wore number 53 for the Tigers in first start tonight.
[quote comment=”343922″]I don’t get “small market” complaints at all. It has always struck me as a failure to market the team. Particularly when you hear it from places like Toronto, or Montreal, or especially Miami, which are all among the biggest metropolitan areas in north America. It seems easier sometimes to blame the size of your city for small crowds and a small following, even when its not true.
[/quote]
I’m fairly certain that all of those cities trump St. Louis in terms of market size. Doesn’t seem to be a hindrance to the Cardinals, does it?
[quote comment=”343937″][quote comment=”343922″]I don’t get “small market” complaints at all. It has always struck me as a failure to market the team. Particularly when you hear it from places like Toronto, or Montreal, or especially Miami, which are all among the biggest metropolitan areas in north America. It seems easier sometimes to blame the size of your city for small crowds and a small following, even when its not true.
[/quote]
I’m fairly certain that all of those cities trump St. Louis in terms of market size. Doesn’t seem to be a hindrance to the Cardinals, does it?[/quote]
Yeah there is that.
A search of aircraft registry # N448PC brings up the Flight Tracker results of the last trip for Lenny Dykstra’s plane before being grounded, from Teterboro, NJ to Cleveland:
link
and an action shot:
link
[quote comment=”343798″][quote comment=”343794″]so, i was just takin’ my smoke break and i noticed link on a yellow bug in the parking lot…
pretty hard to fathom that the last time the mets hosted the ASG was ’64 (fyos)…but i guess that means
citifieldnew shea is due2011 is in phoenix, look for boston to get 2012 (for the 100th anniversary of the fens), and maybe new shea in 2013…but i’ve also heard selig was gonna give 2012 to the royals, and look for the twinkies to get in on this too
and you have wrigley wanting 2014 for their 100th…[/quote]
I believe the ASG rotation is:
2010
Los Angeles Angels
2011
Arizona Diamondbacks
2012
Kansas City Royals
2013
New York Mets[/quote]
I think the Nationals might get it before the Mets, just so they can have the season ticket boost. But after that, I think the Mets, Twins, Marlins, and Rays will get to host it. Boston definitely does not need it so soon after their last one.
I hope they all get to host it before any repeats, but I also hope they get rid of that stupid WS home field advantage “rule” too.
[quote comment=”343936″]Washburn wore number 53 for the Tigers in first start tonight.[/quote]
You talking about his jersey number or his ERA as a Tiger?
Whoa. I just noticed that the Mets’ link doesn’t come out of a link any more. What a crock of shit.
Actually, it doesn’t really come out of anything this season, does it?
Just a note about Brian Anderson and Chris Duncan sharing equipment. They are both graduates of Canyon del Oro High School in Tucson, AZ.
This fabled high school baseball program has sent a number of players onto the major leagues including the Duncan brothers, Brian Anderson and ian Kinsler.
hold on here….
Teebz….there’s professional soccer in the US?
really?
[quote comment=”343895″]Shake, you’ve inspired me. For a year now I have mentioned here about my memory of an all-pins affair between the Pirates and Mets at Shea in the summer of ’77 or ’78. Last week someone said he found visual proof in the New York Times archive. (The game took place the same day or so as the Indians’ blue-on-red game. Coincidence? Madness.) Tomorrow I’ll walk a few blocks down the street to the public library and see if I can find it, print it, and post it.[/quote]
Right on, looking forward to seeing the proof! You may want to call ahead to your local branch before going up there. Sometimes, only one branch will have the old newspapers on microfilm. I had to go a few towns over on my quest. Go get ’em.
According to the Texans schedule, the Patriots have settled on an interesting helmet choice for the game:
link