Did the Team That Later Played in the Silverdome Wear Gold Domes?

Just a quick question…has anything ever been made over the fact that the Washington Senators/Nationals “W” and the Walgreen’s “W” look very similar?

better look

link

Someone already put time into this though,

link

University of North Dakota is retiring the nickname “Sioux” and the Indianhead logo.

They have been the Sioux since 1930.

Prior to that they were the Flickertails, which is a small deer, I guess.

—Ricko

[quote comment=”329312″]Just a quick question…has anything ever been made over the fact that the Washington Senators/Nationals “W” and the Walgreen’s “W” look very similar?[/quote]

I’ve also noticed the similarity and have been expecting some sort of legal battle.

Love the chauffeur uni in the bullpen buggy picture.

HelmetHut write up
“Although a scientist would contend that it’s simply the reflection of its internal silver paint shining though its now decayed and yellowing transparent plastic shell don’t be fooled. Any true Detroit Lion’s fan understands that the golden hue that now glows from an original 1950’s Lions “Riddell RT” helmet is a sign from the football gods commemorating the team’s fifty year anniversary of its glory years. In the “Golden Fifties” the Lions played in the NFL Championship four times and won three times, the last time in 1957.

There is probably no finer collectable representation from that glorious period that this month’s featured helmet worn by Bobby Layne, the Lion’s immortal quarterback and true leader on and off the field. The helmet, along with his Honolulu blue jersey, were originally sourced directly from the estate of the Lion’s longtime equipment manager Roy “Friday” Macklem. Bobby was a favorite of ole “Friday” and it was common knowledge among many of the players that the two often shared a nip or two in the locker room every day prior to practice. Tales of Bobby’s exploits are legendary and tend to grow over the years but there is not an exaggeration to say that he was one of the greatest team leaders in the history of sports.

There is no question that this relic belongs on display at the luxurious Lion’s headquarters or in the Pro Football Hall of Fame where Bobby’s legacy has resided since his election in 1967. Unfortunately, unless the NFL owners can create additional sources of income beyond national television and radio contracts, private suite sales, stadium naming rights, merchandise licensing, private seat licenses, parking revenues, $250 club level seating, $6 hotdogs and $8 beers there is no discretionary money left to acquire these priceless artifacts for their fans (customers) to enjoy when they visit the stadium.

Bobby’s famous and now retired number “22” remains proud and clearly visible in its original position at the rear of this early 1950’s (1954 factory date code) leather appointed “RT” helmet. These gold (with black trim) helmet numerals were the same type offered in the 1950’s Riddell helmet catalog and worn by several teams during this period. Ironically, Bobby periodically continued wearing these same style helmet numerals long after he was traded to the Steelers in 1957 up until his final regular season game in 1962 long after they were discarded by most other teams. In post season play that season Bobby and the Steelers qualified for the, now defunct, “Runner-Up” Bowl (against the Lions) the game when the Steelers first introduced their now iconic black helmets. Another consistent feature of this and every helmet that he wore throughout his 15 year pro career was the absence of a facemask, a vivid reflection of his unmatched steely and free spirited comportment. Quarterbacks were subject to ferocious blows to the head during this era. Bobby’s helmet included a rare, Riddell factory installed, optional padded headband and internal padded ear holes designed to minimize potential head injuries. The helmet’s gray center ridge, unlike the remainder of the shell, is not translucent but color impregnated explaining why time has not also turned it golden.

It has often been quoted that “Bobby Layne never lost a game — time just ran out on him.” The image of this month’s featured Bobby Layne helmet inspires the following additional sentiments: “As time passes the golden locks of mere mortals turn silver but the once silver headgear that of this legendary Lions quarterback will forever radiate a growing golden sparkle.”

Got a survey by e-mail from NFL shop. They’re looking into having customizable gear with non-current team logos/colors and possibly allowing customization with retired player names (currently a no-no).

Wow this is a great site.
link

[quote comment=”329319″]Paul,
The Lions helmet is a Riddell clear shell (tenite plastic) and it was silver but due to the age has faded to a gold hue. HelmetHut has a nice write up about it.[/quote]

link is HelmetHut’s opinion.

Great article in the NYT. I’ll be in NYC next week, and I’m excited to check it out. As a former NYC Parks employee I got a kick out of the fact that the historical sign has all its info wrong. I think those signs were rather mass produced so I’m not surprised they played fast and loose.

Also, it’s fantastic to see the Twin Cities Baseball Wobblies representing in today’s ticker! (“All that’s wrong, and right, with life.”)

[quote comment=”329328″][quote comment=”329319″]Paul,
The Lions helmet is a Riddell clear shell (tenite plastic) and it was silver but due to the age has faded to a gold hue. HelmetHut has a nice write up about it.[/quote]

link is HelmetHut’s opinion.[/quote]

Man… the pics linked in post #4 REALLY look like gold-painted helmets to me. Anybody else?

Just want to share the common sentiment: amazing article. Congratulations on the culmination of all the hard work. You two should be very proud!

link out of Nike today. This changes everything!

[quote comment=”329329″][quote comment=”329318″]University of North Dakota is retiring the nickname “Sioux” and the Indianhead logo.

They have been the Sioux since 1930.

Prior to that they were the Flickertails, which is a small deer, I guess.

—Ricko[/quote]
The Sioux hockey unis have been among the finest unis in all of sport, IMO, although in recent years they’ve gotten a bit black-happy.

Hate to contradict Ricko, but it appears that the link would be way link to be a deer. I can think of a good Bullwinkle-related look for the next logo, though.[/quote]

The tribe leaders need to give their heads a shake. If most of their residents approve the name, why are their leaders still opposed to it?

Politics and being politically-correct are ruining sports just like they are ruining society. “Fighting Sioux” is no more offensive than “Redskins”, “Blackhawks”, “Americans”, or “Indians”. If Notre Dame can drop the “fighting” moniker and stick with “Irish”, why not honour the Sioux tribes and drop the “fighting”?

I am not happy about this. Not one bit.

Trent Edwards and Lee Evans of the Bills taking BP with the Blue Jays. High Cuffed!

link

A good photo of the “The Game That Was” book can be found here:

link

[quote]the Lions wore silver, blue, and red helmets at various points over the years (yes, red), but there’s no mention of gold.[/quote]
They also wore black in the Bo McMillin days.

[quote comment=”329338″][quote comment=”329329″][quote comment=”329318″]University of North Dakota is retiring the nickname “Sioux” and the Indianhead logo.

They have been the Sioux since 1930.

Prior to that they were the Flickertails, which is a small deer, I guess.

—Ricko[/quote]
The Sioux hockey unis have been among the finest unis in all of sport, IMO, although in recent years they’ve gotten a bit black-happy.

Hate to contradict Ricko, but it appears that the link would be way link to be a deer. I can think of a good Bullwinkle-related look for the next logo, though.[/quote]

The tribe leaders need to give their heads a shake. If most of their residents approve the name, why are their leaders still opposed to it?

Politics and being politically-correct are ruining sports just like they are ruining society. “Fighting Sioux” is no more offensive than “Redskins”, “Blackhawks”, “Americans”, or “Indians”. If Notre Dame can drop the “fighting” moniker and stick with “Irish”, why not honour the Sioux tribes and drop the “fighting”?

I am not happy about this. Not one bit.[/quote]

I agree, at what point will we decide that political correctness is ruining tradition and history? Though, I can see the argument that “Redskin” is offensive. Names like “Redskins” and “Savages” have negative racial connotations, whereas teams simply named after a tribe I believe, are a great honor to the tribe.

I haven’t read or heard anywhere that Notre Dame has dropped the “Fighting” in “Fighting Irish.” Is this a fact?

Even though it is absolutely absurd for UND to drop “Fighting Sioux” as their nickname, if they did decide to go back to “Flickertails” I think that is a pretty cool name as well.

[quote comment=”329345″][quote] “Fighting Sioux” is no more offensive than “Redskins”[/quote]

wait…what?[/quote]

Yah, gotta admit even as 10-year-old I thought “Redskins” was over the line.

Of course, considering who OWNED the team when the change was made from Boston Braves to Boston Redskins, it does suggest a certain insensitivity to such things.

Doesn’t forgive it mind, just explains it.

—Ricko

[quote comment=”329340″]Trent Edwards and Lee Evans of the Bills taking BP with the Blue Jays. High Cuffed!

link

The high-cuffed pants were the closest thing that the NFLers could get to the bikers shorts that they prefer to wear.

[quote comment=”329345″][quote] “Fighting Sioux” is no more offensive than “Redskins”[/quote]

wait…what?[/quote]

LI Phil, are you disagreeing and saying “Fighting Sioux” is MORE offensive than “Redskins”? Seams Teebz is saying just the opposite: “Fighting Sioux” is not as offensive as “Redskins”. In my opinion, it is obvious that “Redskins” is the worst of the bunch so seeing someone disagree with that surprises me. Am I mis-understanding your comment?

I do find it funny that, with a current administration trying to change out vocabulary like calling ‘terrorism’ ‘man made disasters’, you’re all but guaranteed to see each and every one of them at FedEx Field sometime this fall cheering on the Redskins…

Just sayin…

Paul,

Saw the discussion on the gold/silver Lions helmet in the early 50’s.

I have indeed heard and known about a gold helmet that the Lions supposedly worn in the early 50’s. As most (95%+) of my research has involved scoping through b/w newspaper photos, it would be impossible for me to confirm if they did wear the gold helmets based on those photos. If someone out there has confirmation that the Lions DID wear gold helmets and — more importantly — when they wore them, I will gladly change the listing on the 33-58 database.

The more accurate the database is, the better for ALL of us.

[quote comment=”329349″]And JTH, you’re leading the hockey pool after a stellar Round Two![/quote]
I’ll say this…

The Carolina Hurricanes will be the end of me. Not sure I can take any more of this late game/OT heroics anymore. My God, what is this, the 6th time in 14 games where the game was decided in either the final minute or overtime? Not to mention a Game 7 that was won with less than a minute on the clock and another Game 7 that was won in OT?

One of these days, I’ll be watching a playoff game, clutch my chest, and BAM… no more Beardface

[quote comment=”329352″][quote comment=”329340″]Trent Edwards and Lee Evans of the Bills taking BP with the Blue Jays. High Cuffed!

link

The high-cuffed pants were the closest thing that the NFLers could get to the bikers shorts that they prefer to wear.[/quote]

That’s a fun story! I love cross-sports type promotions.

I will definitely root for those two now.

[quote comment=”329359″]
i disagree…unless teebz feels ‘fighting sioux’ is EXTREMELY offensive…then it would be no more offensive than ‘redskins'[/quote]

No, you got it. I think that the name “Fighting Sioux” could lose a word, but it would be akin to naming the team after someone in particular to honour that person and his/her achievements.

Aside from their terrible play in recent years, who wasn’t an Islander fan? Phil, does the term “Islander” bother you? I’m guessing no. And you’d probably punch me in the mouth for suggesting as much. lol

But the term “Sioux” is only used in the most respectful of terms in North Dakota (from what I’ve seen and heard), so I don’t see how the leaders of the Sioux tribes can claim is disrespectful.

And what of Ralph Englestad Arena? Wasn’t that a clause in him donating the money to build that palace – keep them the “Sioux”?

In today’s lead photo, the inside edge of the helmet’s right earhole appears to be silver. If it is, that might indicate that the helmet was, in fact, painted gold. I mean, that if the gold is from the helmet discoloring with age, wouldn’t the inside edge of earhole discolor at the same rate? (that’s a science question, not a rhetorical question)

–Ricko

[quote comment=”329365″]
But its not. Its offensive. It has no place in a team name.[/quote]

You just stated that if it is offensive, you have to prove how it is offensive.

How is naming a team after a particular tribe with which the region has a long history with offensive in any way, especially when you consider that an academic institution such as the University of North Dakota has been using the name for 70+ years? Why is is only offensive now?

Oh right… the NCAA got its panties in a knot over the name because they feel it demeans the Sioux people. On the contrary, I feel it honours that tribe of native Americans instead of them being forgotten like the hundreds of other tribes across North America. The ones who are forgotten demand more recognition, yet the ones who are honoured want less.

You can’t have it both ways.

utz chips are made in Hanover, PA, down by the Mason-Dixon line.

Big sellers here in Central PA.

Aside from Utz, there are many potato chip brands here, like Martin’s, Hartley’s, Gibble’s, Snyder’s of Hanover, Snyder of Berlin, and my personal pick of the litter, Middleswarth from Middleburg, PA.

Could explain my weight problem….

[quote comment=”329364″][quote comment=”329359″]
i disagree…unless teebz feels ‘fighting sioux’ is EXTREMELY offensive…then it would be no more offensive than ‘redskins'[/quote]

No, you got it. I think that the name “Fighting Sioux” could lose a word, but it would be akin to naming the team after someone in particular to honour that person and his/her achievements.

Aside from their terrible play in recent years, who wasn’t an Islander fan? Phil, does the term “Islander” bother you? I’m guessing no. And you’d probably punch me in the mouth for suggesting as much. lol

But the term “Sioux” is only used in the most respectful of terms in North Dakota (from what I’ve seen and heard), so I don’t see how the leaders of the Sioux tribes can claim is disrespectful.

And what of Ralph Englestad Arena? Wasn’t that a clause in him donating the money to build that palace – keep them the “Sioux”?[/quote]

It doesn’t matter what you or I think about the “respectful” nature of the Sioux nickname. Or what the University intended, for that matter. The only thing which matters is what the tribe thinks, and the tribe, through its elected leaders, has decided that they don’t want the “honor.”

I’m pretty sure that you’re right and the money from Englestad was on condition that they kept the name. In my opinion that only tarnishes the association – in an era when the epithet is so casually thrown around as to lose its punch, the man is a genuine wannabe Nazi.

[quote comment=”329368″][quote comment=”329365″]
But its not. Its offensive. It has no place in a team name.[/quote]

You just stated that if it is offensive, you have to prove how it is offensive.

How is naming a team after a particular tribe with which the region has a long history with offensive in any way, especially when you consider that an academic institution such as the University of North Dakota has been using the name for 70+ years? Why is is only offensive now?

Oh right… the NCAA got its panties in a knot over the name because they feel it demeans the Sioux people. On the contrary, I feel it honours that tribe of native Americans instead of them being forgotten like the hundreds of other tribes across North America. The ones who are forgotten demand more recognition, yet the ones who are honoured want less.

You can’t have it both ways.[/quote]

Pretty sure he meant “Redskins” shouldn’t be a team nickname because it clearly met both the conditions he described.

Don’t think he was saying “Sioux” did.

Either way, this point that Chance Michaels makes…
“It doesn’t matter what you or I think about the “respectful” nature of the Sioux nickname. Or what the University intended, for that matter. The only thing which matters is what the tribe thinks, and the tribe, through its elected leaders, has decided that they don’t want the ‘honor.’ ”
…is the central, critical determining factor.

—Ricko

[quote comment=”329366″]In today’s lead photo, the inside edge of the helmet’s right earhole appears to be silver. If it is, that might indicate that the helmet was, in fact, painted gold. I mean, that if the gold is from the helmet discoloring with age, wouldn’t the inside edge of earhole discolor at the same rate? (that’s a science question, not a rhetorical question)

–Ricko[/quote]

Ricko –

I can’t see the picture you are referring to, however i suppose it would depend on where exactly the paint is located. From what I have read today, the contention is that the gold is caused by the discoloration of the plastic shell, more so than the discoloration of the paint. If this is the case then your theory may not hold true if the silver is at a point on the helmet where it can be viewed directly with no distortion from the plastic.

If not, then disregard my post.

[quote comment=”329370″]utz chips are made in Hanover, PA, down by the Mason-Dixon line.

Big sellers here in Central PA.

Aside from Utz, there are many potato chip brands here, like Martin’s, Hartley’s, Gibble’s, Snyder’s of Hanover, Snyder of Berlin, and my personal pick of the litter, Middleswarth from Middleburg, PA.

Could explain my weight problem….[/quote]
I had several trips to Philly for software training a few years ago and encountered excellent pretzels called Unique Splits. I’d be well over 300 pounds if they were constantly available.

[quote comment=”329378″][quote comment=”329366″]In today’s lead photo, the inside edge of the helmet’s right earhole appears to be silver. If it is, that might indicate that the helmet was, in fact, painted gold. I mean, that if the gold is from the helmet discoloring with age, wouldn’t the inside edge of earhole discolor at the same rate? (that’s a science question, not a rhetorical question)

–Ricko[/quote]

Ricko –

I can’t see the picture you are referring to, however i suppose it would depend on where exactly the paint is located. From what I have read today, the contention is that the gold is caused by the discoloration of the plastic shell, more so than the discoloration of the paint. If this is the case then your theory may not hold true if the silver is at a point on the helmet where it can be viewed directly with no distortion from the plastic.

If not, then disregard my post.[/quote]

Yeah, forgot about the plastic coating stuff. Would they have coated the inside, too? Anybody? Cuz it’s turned gold, too.

—Ricko

i just wanna re-clarify for the earlier poster, in case, as per usual, im not clear

there are many who find “redskins” to be extremely offensive, such that the epithet may be equated with the same offensive nature as the “N” word

i certainly don’t view “fighting sioux” to be offensive in the same way as “redskins” is found offensive — but that’s not my call, that’s just MHO

i was only moderately shocked that teebz would not find redskins any more offensive than fighting sioux, since i think most of us would agree that on the offensiveness scale…redskins is pretty much the top name you can place up there

either way, despite the plethora of swooshes, whatever happens with the name, they better not dump the greatest third uni ever in college puck

Having worked with a number of the tribally owned casinos in the Dakotas, I can tell you there still is plenty in enmity between the races thereabouts…on both sides, believe me.

So…is the real motive to crush an outstanding hockey program just because they can? Possibly.
Are they tired of the all the still-lingering crap they’ve taken over the last century and a half or so? Possibly, even probably.

It’s just an unfortunate situation. Too much bitterness and rancor—and sometimes envy, especially now with gaming revenues flowing–on both sides. Perhaps in another environment they could have worked it out, the way the Seminole nation has worked things out with Florida State.

Or will FSU have to change its nickname name soon, too. Isn’t there some kind of NCAA deadline for political correctness approaching?

—Ricko

[quote comment=”329331″][quote comment=”329327″]Speaking of the Nationals and the Walgreens’ W, I noticed link in the Times this morning.

I presume the logo isn’t stolen, as MLB has been very tough with Little Leagues using their logos without permission. I really hope George Washington High is using it under license….[/quote]
Notice the ‘MLB’ logo on the backside of the hats… With that logo, MLB gets their share of each hat sold. I would think, in that case, they would be fine.[/quote]

Why is there an MLB logo slapped on the back of a Walgreen’s cap?

More importantly, I really dig link.

[quote comment=”329390″][quote comment=”329384″]i just wanna re-clarify for the earlier poster, in case, as per usual, im not clear

there are many who find “redskins” to be extremely offensive, such that the epithet may be equated with the same offensive nature as the “N” word

i certainly don’t view “fighting sioux” to be offensive in the same way as “redskins” is found offensive — but that’s not my call, that’s just MHO

i was only moderately shocked that teebz would not find redskins any more offensive than fighting sioux, since i think most of us would agree that on the offensiveness scale…redskins is pretty much the top name you can place up there

either way, despite the plethora of swooshes, whatever happens with the name, they better not dump the link ever in college puck[/quote]

But I do find Redskins extremely offensive. It would be akin to calling a hockey team as the “Caucasians”. My point was that Fighting Sioux is no more offensive than any of the other terms used to describe a group of people by their background.

How many Canadians and Europeans play for the Rochester Americans? I demand, as a non-American, that the name be changed!

[This is the part where you can all tell me to GFY, especially if you’re an AHL fan. LOL]

All I was saying is that the term, from what I’ve seen and heard, is highly respected within the state of North Dakota, and I think those other terms – Indians, Redskins, etc. – should be stomped out first before taking offence with the UND Sioux.[/quote]

can I tell you anyway? :-P

I’ve often used this a parallel when discussing this “team nicknaming” issue regarding Native American culture… and I wonder if it seems valid to this group:

Naming my team the “Jews”? Nope, wrong, undoubtedly.

But how about calling them the “Maccabees”? Would, or would not, that be acceptable?

—Ricko

[quote comment=”329393″]I’ve often used this a parallel when discussing this “team nicknaming” issue regarding Native American culture… and I wonder if it seems valid to this group:

Naming my team the “Jews”? Nope, wrong, undoubtedly.

But how about calling them the “Maccabees”? Would, or would not, that be acceptable?

—Ricko[/quote]

This is perhaps as close as you’ll get
link

Paul, with all the posts about Utz snacks it might be time for you to do a column/tournament about snack foods/brands. Food for thought, no pun intended.

[quote comment=”329390″]
How many Canadians and Europeans play for the Rochester Americans? I demand, as a non-American, that the name be changed![/quote]
At the risk of taking this discussion into the realm of all-out silliness, I’d like to point out that 5 out of the 7 captains/alternates on the Canadiens and Canucks are not even from Canada.

There are two from Finland, two from the USA and a Russian (Saku Koivu, Mattias Ohlund, Mike Komisarek, Ryan Kesler and Alexei Kovalev). Hell, the Canucks’ captain can’t even wear the C on his sweater, so I say only one of six is Canadian.

[quote comment=”329393″]I’ve often used this a parallel when discussing this “team nicknaming” issue regarding Native American culture… and I wonder if it seems valid to this group:

Naming my team the “Jews”? Nope, wrong, undoubtedly.

But how about calling them the “Maccabees”? Would, or would not, that be acceptable?

—Ricko[/quote]
Were it up to me, I would call it okay.

The distinction I would tend to draw is “job.” Nicknames like “Braves” and “Chiefs” are about the jobs that people took within a certain society and I don’t personally have a major issue with them. “Sioux” and “Indians” are about the ethnicity itself, and barring a licensing agreement I would personally label them out of bounds.

As for “Redskins”, no amount of rationalization they come up with can convince me that it’s anything other than horribly racist.

[quote comment=”329400″][quote comment=”329363″][quote comment=”329357″]btw,

wtf is UTZ?

I see it advertised in lots of stadiums, but, umm, WTF is it?[/quote]

 

edit: dammit stu!

link[/quote]

Mmm… Carolina Bar-B-Q is the TRUTH!!
link
WHY can’t I get a full-size bag in Pittsburgh?![/quote]
Well… I know where you can get some real pulled pork Carolina BBQ. Outside the RBC Center next weekend as the Canes are kicking the Pens’ asses up and down the ice!

:-)

I haven’t read or heard anywhere that Notre Dame has dropped the “Fighting” in “Fighting Irish.” Is this a fact?

No, it’s still “Fighting Irish.” You’ll see “Irish” on the uniforms and merchandise simply because it saves space.

[quote comment=”329399″][quote comment=”329390″]
How many Canadians and Europeans play for the Rochester Americans? I demand, as a non-American, that the name be changed![/quote]
At the risk of taking this discussion into the realm of all-out silliness, I’d like to point out that 5 out of the 7 captains/alternates on the Canadiens and Canucks are not even from Canada.

There are two from Finland, two from the USA and a Russian (Saku Koivu, Mattias Ohlund, Mike Komisarek, Ryan Kesler and Alexei Kovalev). Hell, the Canucks’ captain can’t even wear the C on his sweater, so I say only one of six is Canadian.[/quote]
Gah! Mattias Ohlund is not from Finland. He’s Swedish. What the hell is wrong with me? It doesn’t even sound like a Finnish name.

But the fact remains that he isn’t Canadian.

No way! The Lions somehow f—ed up something? I’m not buying it.

I hope that someday Tim Brulia can put pictures or mock-ups on his project. That would be truly bad ass.

[quote comment=”329404″]Why do the Mets keep wearing their home uniforms ( although they are black and ugly ) on the road. They did it in St.Louis and then again last nite in SF. ( Not sure how to add link to photos but I’m sure you noticed )Please make them stop.[/quote]
Those are black alternates, for home AND road use. The black NEW YORK tops just got axed this year.

Two excellent reads –> the NYT article on the Candela Structures and the feedback Paul gathered from Vets re: the camo uniforms.

[quote comment=”329400″][quote comment=”329363″][quote comment=”329357″]btw,

wtf is UTZ?

I see it advertised in lots of stadiums, but, umm, WTF is it?[/quote]

 

edit: dammit stu!

link[/quote]

Mmm… Carolina Bar-B-Q is the TRUTH!!
link
WHY can’t I get a full-size bag in Pittsburgh?![/quote]
Not sure…Synders must have monopoly of anything larger than a snack pack!

if you’re ever an hour and a half east, stop in Johnstown. Their Giant Eagle stores have the full size bags.

Crab chip baby! (not knocking carolina BBQ because that’s good too!)

[quote comment=”329403″][quote comment=”329400″][quote comment=”329363″][quote comment=”329357″]btw,

wtf is UTZ?

I see it advertised in lots of stadiums, but, umm, WTF is it?[/quote]

 

edit: dammit stu!

link[/quote]

Mmm… Carolina Bar-B-Q is the TRUTH!!
link
WHY can’t I get a full-size bag in Pittsburgh?![/quote]
Well… I know where you can get some real pulled pork Carolina BBQ. Outside the RBC Center next weekend as the Canes are kicking the Pens’ asses up and down the ice!

:-)[/quote]

Haha! Usually, I prefer blowouts (like the Pens’ dismantling of the Craps in game 7), but I think for this series, I’ll be praying for nailbiters (see post #47). :)

I’m kidding, of course. I’m looking for more blowouts.

Since we’ve been reading about the Candela structures

link

It’s a nice suit. Not sure about the tie.

[quote comment=”329410″]
Also was thinking, how much can “Sioux” be said to equate to “Celtics”?

—Ricko[/quote]
Don’t get me started on that. :-((((

And Ricko, apropos of nothing except a comment from a few days ago: during WWII my father was also a member of Ship’s Company: US Naval Training Center, Great Lakes, Illinois. :-)

He was out on the lake a few times on the USS Wilmette, a locally famous ship.

[quote comment=”329402″]
Seminoles and Illini to, say, Irish.

—Ricko[/quote]
Ricko, the word “Illini” is a shortened version of a French word; and that French word is an attempt to translate the word “mankind” or “humankind” from the Native language.

In short, there never was a tribe named “Illini” or anything like that word.

[quote comment=”329424″]
Oh, and I don’t see how you can cram an “honor” down someone’s throat. If they don’t want it, it ain’t an honor.[/quote]
One of the two tribes in question in North Dakota voted to “accept” the honor: the ratio was about 2-1, which would be described as a landslide victory in most political elections.

Nothing is being crammed down anyone’s throat in that connection. Quite the opposite.

[quote comment=”329425″][quote comment=”329424″]
Oh, and I don’t see how you can cram an “honor” down someone’s throat. If they don’t want it, it ain’t an honor.[/quote]
One of the two tribes in question in North Dakota voted to “accept” the honor: the ratio was about 2-1, which would be described as a landslide victory in most political elections.

Nothing is being crammed down anyone’s throat in that connection. Quite the opposite.[/quote]
And the tribes have the right to change their mind.

[quote comment=”329422″]Soda and Chip watch…Phil, LWeidy, Ricko throw us something to work with![/quote]
Sorry to bore you Powers….hey, I know, make a DIY hockey jersey of the Utz logo: link

[quote comment=”329327″]Speaking of the Nationals and the Walgreens’ W, I noticed link in the Times this morning.

I presume the logo isn’t stolen, as MLB has been very tough with Little Leagues using their logos without permission. I really hope George Washington High is using it under license….[/quote]

My High School in CA went to the Senators old “Curvy W” in the early 90’s in gold on a black hat. Of course, there were no Nationals at the time, and I don’t think the TX Rangers were defending that logo much.

I remember thinking how dumb it looked since all other W’s at the school were always Block style (think U of Washington), and mentioning the Senators rip off, none of my friends knew what I was talking about . . .

[quote comment=”329425″][quote comment=”329424″]
Oh, and I don’t see how you can cram an “honor” down someone’s throat. If they don’t want it, it ain’t an honor.[/quote]
One of the two tribes in question in North Dakota voted to “accept” the honor: the ratio was about 2-1, which would be described as a landslide victory in most political elections.

Nothing is being crammed down anyone’s throat in that connection. Quite the opposite.[/quote]

i direct you to the third section of this little ditty by alexis de tocqueville…

just because it’s a two-to-one ratio doesn’t mean it’s right

/playing devils advocate, slightly, here…just sayin’

nice post joe s ;)

[quote comment=”329426″][quote comment=”329422″]Soda and Chip watch…Phil, LWeidy, Ricko throw us something to work with![/quote]
The Nats haven’t fucked up in a week or so, the NHL and NBA is winding down, MLB has pretty much already unveiled everything for this year, for the most part the NFL unveilings are complete, and the annual Eastbay college football uni-leak is at least a month away…

this is the uni-dead period of the year…[/quote]

Here’s something: I’m getting my softball team together to start next month and I want to have a new team name and possibly new color(s). The last two years we were the Urban Achievers, but I feel that joke is getting a bit played out (if you don’t know what I’m talking about, watch The Big Lebowski). So someone come up with a team identity and color scheme for a rag-tag bunch of amateurs. I expect full color logos, wordmarks and uniform mock-ups. GO!

[quote comment=”329432″]”well the majority voted for it, so it must be the right thing to do.”[/quote]If the majority voted the way the “cram down their throat” poster wanted them to, I would suggest that that referendum would be held up as “proof” of the tribal intent.

And somewhere up the line, the pronouncement was made that “the only thing that matters is what the two tribes want”. No reference to right or wrong in that post, was there?

[quote comment=”329416″]Candela coverage from The Sporting News:
link

If you are looking for leftovers from the World’s fair, there is always the “World’s Largest Tire” outside of Detroit…which was constructed from the ferris wheel at the fair.

link

The Times article is really great. Nice work, Lukas. I believe that bullpen buggy is a Harley Topper, the scooter Harley-Davidson made for a few years.

[quote comment=”329438″][quote comment=”329422″]Soda and Chip watch…Phil, LWeidy, Ricko throw us something to work with![/quote]

matt, all kidding aside, i’m surprised you don’t like hockey all that much…[/quote]

I haven’t given it a chance…and to be honest, I’m just stirring the pot a bit.

Playoff Hockey IS very exciting, I will give you all that.

Here’s a question…If a student were to wear a Fukudome jersey to school, should the student be forced to remove it?

I say no….whatch y’all think?

[quote]If a student were to wear a Fukudome jersey to school, should the student be forced to remove it?[/quote]

male or female?

BTW, have the Cubs ever had a red alternate?

I don’t know if anyone posted this, but the Phillies visited the White House today and gave President Obama a #44 jersey with the special gold trim…

link

[quote comment=”329428″][quote comment=”329427″][quote comment=”329425″][quote comment=”329424″]
Oh, and I don’t see how you can cram an “honor” down someone’s throat. If they don’t want it, it ain’t an honor.[/quote]
One of the two tribes in question in North Dakota voted to “accept” the honor: the ratio was about 2-1, which would be described as a landslide victory in most political elections.

Nothing is being crammed down anyone’s throat in that connection. Quite the opposite.[/quote]
And the tribes have the right to change their mind.[/quote]
I guarantee you the ‘change of mind’ had to do with money…[/quote]

You may be right.

Doesn’t matter.

[quote comment=”329452″][quote comment=”329450″]link[/quote]

from the article:

[quote]The Washington Redskins won another legal victory Friday in a 17-year fight with a group of American Indians who contend the NFL team’s trademark is racially offensive. … Club lawyer Bob Raskopf said … “It’s a great day for the Redskins and their fans and their owner Dan Snyder,”[/quote]

indeed[/quote]

Surprisingly, Phil, no judge has made a decision based upon the racial commentary. It’s simply a case of trademarks.

I’m going to trademark “whiteboy” this afternoon so I can use it on everything I produce. LOL

[quote comment=”329446″][quote comment=”329445″][quote comment=”329438″][quote comment=”329422″]Soda and Chip watch…Phil, LWeidy, Ricko throw us something to work with![/quote]

matt, all kidding aside, i’m surprised you don’t like hockey all that much…[/quote]

I haven’t given it a chance…and to be honest, I’m just stirring the pot a bit.

Playoff Hockey IS very exciting, I will give you all that.

Here’s a question…If a student were to wear a Fukudome jersey to school, should the student be forced to remove it?

I say no….whatch y’all think?[/quote]

A buddy of mine wears his Pittsburgh Penguins’ Satan jersey to work all the time.

Nothing is said of it.

And stop stirring the pot. Otherwise, I’ll bring up your overly-female shoe obsession. ;o) LOL[/quote]
Tebbz, my brother has always been a huge Satan fan. Naturally when he signed with the Pens I went and got him a t-shirt jersey for his August birthday. (Obviously we all thought and wished he would have performed better for the club, although he had some nice plays in the Caps’ series).

Over Labor Day weekend, we were at this ethnic festival that all the churches of one neighborhood in Johnstown participate in, making ethnic dishes and such.

So we’re sitting in the church rec room eating and my buddy says “dude, you do realize you’re sitting in a church building with a shirt that says SATAN?”

[quote comment=”329452″][quote comment=”329450″]link[/quote]

from the article:

[quote]The Washington Redskins won another legal victory Friday in a 17-year fight with a group of American Indians who contend the NFL team’s trademark is racially offensive. … Club lawyer Bob Raskopf said … “It’s a great day for the Redskins and their fans and their owner Dan Snyder,”[/quote]

indeed[/quote]

The team (I can’t even type the word) won on a limitations issue – the plaintiffs in the 1999 case waited too long to sue.

I don’t know much about U.S. statutes of limitations, but if they’re like Canada’s, the indians can start a new action tomorrow with younger plaintiffs and the USPTO has already ruled (in the previous case) that the trademark should be struck out. The team will be back in the court soon enough.

The Mets are running a uniform opinion questionnaire that I just received via email as a Flushing Flah subscriber. They are soliciting opinions about the black jerseys and asking for opinions on some new alternate jerseys; most of which are hideous.

Here is the link: [url]http://link.mlblists.com/r/789OQD/MGQJ6/RPY928/HACHA/V15A2D/XL/h?a=partnerId=ed-2537650-82761024%26source=ed-2537650-82761024[/url]

Vote to ditch the black!

[quote comment=”329455″]Surprisingly, Phil, no judge has made a decision based upon the racial commentary. It’s simply a case of trademarks.[/quote]

not surprising at all…nor was i either saying or implying it was

from that article:

[quote]The judge did not address whether the Redskins name is offensive or racist. She wrote that her decision was not based on the larger issue of “the appropriateness of Native American imagery for team names.”[/quote]

i was just highlighting that “It’s a great day for the Redskins, their fans, and their owner, Dan Snyder” quote

i love how the redskins lawyer basically said “you should have filed this suit in 1967” (tbss)

yep…they’re dancin’ all the way to the bank

[quote comment=”329461″]The Mets are running a uniform opinion questionnaire that I just received via email as a Flushing Flah subscriber. They are soliciting opinions about the black jerseys and asking for opinions on some new alternate jerseys; most of which are hideous.

Here is the link: [url]http://link.mlblists.com/r/789OQD/MGQJ6/RPY928/HACHA/V15A2D/XL/h?a=partnerId=ed-2537650-82761024%26source=ed-2537650-82761024[/url]

Vote to ditch the black![/quote]
They’re considering link?

By the way, I voted for the shittiest option every time. I wouldn’t want Paul or Phil to run out of things to write about.

[quote comment=”329461″]The Mets are running a uniform opinion questionnaire that I just received via email as a Flushing Flah subscriber. They are soliciting opinions about the black jerseys and asking for opinions on some new alternate jerseys; most of which are hideous.

Here is the link: [url]http://link.mlblists.com/r/789OQD/MGQJ6/RPY928/HACHA/V15A2D/XL/h?a=partnerId=ed-2537650-82761024%26source=ed-2537650-82761024[/url]

Vote to ditch the black![/quote]

I did.

Here are the most hideous alts, of all the options:

link

link

[quote comment=”329468″]
Would any of you wear it to work on a casual day?[/quote]

I have my Hartford Whalers t-shirt on right now, and my Manitoba Moose jersey is draped over the back of my chair as I prepare for Game One of the Western Conference Final.

I’m going with a big “yes”. :o)

[quote]would the fighting germans or the fighting spaniards be offensive?[/quote]

what about the ‘fighting french’?

[quote comment=”329471″][quote]would the fighting germans or the fighting spaniards be offensive?[/quote]

what about the ‘fighting french’?[/quote]
They wear brown pants.

I just filled out that Mets uniform survey, with heavy support for jerseys that include piping as opposed to non-piped jerseys.

They don’t show the backs of any of these jerseys, and thus don’t give you the opportunity to express support for the classic NNOB style that they used in 1999 (and pre-late-’70s). Particularly with those unnecessary shadows on the numbers, the NOBs really look bad.

And you don’t get to vote for a return of the ice-cream man caps!

[quote comment=”329470″]I’m all for teams having decency in naming and branding, but what are the possible legal ramifications of such naming? If I wanted to name my sports team the “dirty niggers” couldn’t I? …

[/quote]

You’re asking the wrong question:

1. Can you call your team that? absolutely.

2. Can you have a federal trademark which gives you the exclusive right to use that name? no.

At the end of the day the Washington trademark litigation is about money. If they lose their trademark, then anyone can make gear branded with their logo and they can’t do anything about it (or make any money off it). And then I guarantee you they’ll change the name to something they can trademark so that they can keep that revenue stream.

[quote comment=”329475″]I just filled out that Mets uniform survey, with heavy support for jerseys that include piping as opposed to non-piped jerseys.

They don’t show the backs of any of these jerseys, and thus don’t give you the opportunity to express support for the classic NNOB style that they used in 1999 (and pre-late-’70s). Particularly with those unnecessary shadows on the numbers, the NOBs really look bad.

And you don’t get to vote for a return of the ice-cream man caps![/quote]
Despite my assertion earlier that I voted for the worst option every time, I actually voted the way I really feel (blue cap, “neither” when presented with the options on the alts, piping over non-piping, white pins over cream pins). At the end, in the free-form text, I posted a couple paragraphs about how bad the dropshadows and the black alts look. I forgot to mention the black caps. Damn.

One thing I liked about that survey is that they asked the follow-up question as to why I think they need to get rid of the black alts.

I know I have a screen grab or so and the Lions or at least one or 2 of them had gold helmets. I showed my brother and said look at this.The Lions had a gold helmet the same time other wore silver.

I have been busy today and have to run soon. Later tonight I will find the grabs and also check out 2 other dvds we have of the Browns vs Lions in 1952 and 1953. Both are in color. I forget how good the quality of the film or color is.
Anyhow after I find out I will email Paul and Phil what I find out.

Ricko,
The interior of the Bobby Layne / Riddell is grey because after they sprayed the interior silver they would ‘seal’ the paint with a battleship grey coat. Riddell did this with all of there Tenite helmets as did other clear shell manufacturuers like Macgregor, MaxPro and Kelley.
Also, remember on clear shell helmets such as this, they apply the helmets paint to its interior not the exterior and then rivet in the suspension. The silver stripe on the exterior was either painted silver or impregnated silver plastic (NOT clear shell tenite). It is a separate piece of hard plastic.(Tenite is extremely soft and pliable which was one of its flaws) This center plastic strip held the helmet together as these RT Riddell helmets were put together from two piece molds.
Finally, all clear shell plastic helmets yellow with age and the Tenite model seem even more inclined to it (which is another of its flaws).
P.S.
As far as the photos of Layne go, they look silver in some and gold in others so I would chalk it up to the much less precise qualities of the fifties photos not to mention lighting, time of day, etc. I do a lot of research on helmets and find it very difficult to match colors, hues with old school (or new school) photography and therefore do not ‘bank’ on photography to confirm or deny.

[quote comment=”329472″]Some great historical Chicago Blackhawks photos on the tribune’s site today. The photo of Bobby Hull sprawled out reaching for the puck is spectacular….some other nice ones as well.

link
Nice (DIY?) link of some guy that was apparently at yesterday’s Cubs/Padres game linked on that page as well.

Hey JTH, I saw your comment on Ed Farmer yesterday. I just liked the “long pause” part. That happens a lot with the Sox radio crew.

[quote comment=”329487″]Hey JTH, I saw your comment on Ed Farmer yesterday. I just liked the “long pause” part. That happens a lot with the Sox radio crew.[/quote]And now that I look, I see you responded. Yep, Hawker wears his heart on his sleeve as much as anyone: a huge problem when you’re supposed to be doing PbP.

(And that’s the real problem with Sox broadcasts: no true PbP guys since Rooney was fired.)

[quote comment=”329486″][quote comment=”329482″]Whoa. Get defensive much?[/quote]Yeah, something like that.

Thanks for adding this. Very helpful. How about yourself, BTW?[/quote]

Ok, ok. I deserve that one. I should have just left it alone. Obviously this is a controversial subject, so things like this are bound to happen. So, no hard feelings. Have a great weekend everyone.

Peace.

[quote comment=”329318″]University of North Dakota is retiring the nickname “Sioux” and the Indianhead logo.

They have been the Sioux since 1930.

Prior to that they were the Flickertails, which is a small deer, I guess.

—Ricko[/quote]
One thing to remember – the Fighting Sioux’s hockey arena, Ralph Engelstad Arena has this legacy:
Engelstad embroiled himself in the fight over the Fighting Sioux logo when he built a $100 million arena on the University of North Dakota campus for the Fighting Sioux hockey program. Midway in its construction, Engelstad threatened to withdraw funding if the long standing nickname were to be changed.[3] The logo was placed in thousands of instances in the arena, making the prospect of removal a costly measure. Later, Engelstad placed the stadium under private (rather than University) management and stipulated that the Fighting Sioux motif be kept indefinitely. An Engelstad family trust continues to own the arena and rents it to the University. (Wikipedia)

Englestad passed away in 2002 – but this has been an issue for YEARS!

Conversely, my fantasy football team has been the Fighting Sioux for the past 4 years – 3 championships. The Fighting Sioux WILL live on!!!!

[quote comment=”329372″][quote comment=”329364″][quote comment=”329359″]
i disagree…unless teebz feels ‘fighting sioux’ is EXTREMELY offensive…then it would be no more offensive than ‘redskins'[/quote]

No, you got it. I think that the name “Fighting Sioux” could lose a word, but it would be akin to naming the team after someone in particular to honour that person and his/her achievements.

Aside from their terrible play in recent years, who wasn’t an Islander fan? Phil, does the term “Islander” bother you? I’m guessing no. And you’d probably punch me in the mouth for suggesting as much. lol

But the term “Sioux” is only used in the most respectful of terms in North Dakota (from what I’ve seen and heard), so I don’t see how the leaders of the Sioux tribes can claim is disrespectful.

And what of Ralph Englestad Arena? Wasn’t that a clause in him donating the money to build that palace – keep them the “Sioux”?[/quote]

It doesn’t matter what you or I think about the “respectful” nature of the Sioux nickname. Or what the University intended, for that matter. The only thing which matters is what the tribe thinks, and the tribe, through its elected leaders, has decided that they don’t want the “honor.”

I’m pretty sure that you’re right and the money from Englestad was on condition that they kept the name. In my opinion that only tarnishes the association – in an era when the epithet is so casually thrown around as to lose its punch, the man is a genuine wannabe Nazi.[/quote]

I don’t see how that rationale makes any sense. The Sioux Tribe voted that they don’t “want the honor” so the University should have to change its name? What the tribe thinks is not the only thing that matters, what matters is that we are devolving into a society that takes offense to anything and everything, thus tarnishing those traditions and history that we hold dear.

[quote comment=”329495″] The Sioux Tribe voted that they don’t “want the honor”…[/quote]

But that’s the problem. They didn’t vote that way. The leaders of the two tribes who want the name changed are the people spearheading this movement in forcing the NCAA to force UND to change the name.

The communities themselves actually endorse the name.

The Abbotsford AHL franchise now has a name. And it’s closely related to the Flames.

Your newest AHL relocation is now link.

Miami residents have no comment.

There’s an article in the Times that Jack Kerouac used to play a fantasy baseball game of his own design and that he created his own teams named after makes of cars.

See if this link works

link

There’s a slideshow with his team cards and other paraphernalia.

[quote comment=”329385″][quote comment=”329382″][quote comment=”329378″][quote comment=”329366″]In today’s lead photo, the inside edge of the helmet’s right earhole appears to be silver. If it is, that might indicate that the helmet was, in fact, painted gold. I mean, that if the gold is from the helmet discoloring with age, wouldn’t the inside edge of earhole discolor at the same rate? (that’s a science question, not a rhetorical question)

–Ricko[/quote]

Ricko –

I can’t see the picture you are referring to, however i suppose it would depend on where exactly the paint is located. From what I have read today, the contention is that the gold is caused by the discoloration of the plastic shell, more so than the discoloration of the paint. If this is the case then your theory may not hold true if the silver is at a point on the helmet where it can be viewed directly with no distortion from the plastic.

If not, then disregard my post.[/quote]

Yeah, forgot about the plastic coating stuff. Would they have coated the inside, too? Anybody? Cuz it’s turned gold, too.

—Ricko[/quote]

Personally the Bobby Layne helmet looks like a gold helmet to me. But I do not even begin to claim to be an equipment and/or uni historian.[/quote]

FOR WHAT IT’S WORTH …

The Detroit Lions’ logo from the 1940s-1950s has a large portion of the logo in GOLD. This includes the logo worn on the jackets, coaching shirts, stationary, etc. I recently saw that logo on an authentic 1950s coaches’ (letterman style) jacket sold on Grey Flanmnel auctions.

I own a reproduction of that jacket – identical – sold by Ebbets Field Flannels 6-8 years ago.

The Gold portion of the logo is as prominent as the blue or silver, which are both present.

So maybe a Gold helmet is not too much of a stretch for that Lions’ era.

nevermind … i just googled “kerouac & times” and got the story

Strange…I was at the grocery story and saw link for Big League Chew. The players helmet has a 25 but his jersey most definately is a number in the teens…

Shouldn’t somebody tell Chad Johnson that “85” in Spanish is “Ochenta y cinco?”

*sigh*

MLB is changing things up in the name of money… Err I mean patriotism.

link

[quote comment=”329488″]are the mets thinking about ditching the black??

link

Not tonite they’re not. Black jerseys, black caps, and gray pants. Ewww. Meanwhile, Giants look classy traditional in their light creme look.

link

[quote comment=”329512″][quote comment=”329509″]Shouldn’t somebody tell Chad Johnson that “85” in Spanish is “Ochenta y cinco?”

*sigh*[/quote]

Boy… You just bought a whole can of whoop ass! But not from me. Keep smiling.[/quote]

If Señor Ochocinco comes over, I’ll just confuse him with my Spanglish self. ¡Orale! ¿Por que no puede hablar español the right way? Oye, esa numero es wrong, güey… I guess having a roommate from Mexico paid off! ¡Jajaja!

The Red Sox have once again been forced to wear their road grays because the Mariners are wearing their blue alternate jerseys tonight.

[quote comment=\”329518\”][quote]The Red Sox have once again been forced to wear their road grays[/quote]

you say that like it\’s a bad thing[/quote]

I\’m just not a huge fan on the new road unis. I would like a turn back the clock night featuring the 1989-2008 beauties.

[quote comment=”329471″]“What about the ‘Fighting Surrendering Cheese-Eating Monkey French’?”[/quote]
Much better. Also, fresh from the Cramer boards this item:
link

[quote comment=”329521″] fresh from the Cramer boards this item:
link[/quote]

yet, shockingly link

isn’t it “creamer” anyway, or are you trying to be funny?

/still banned there?

[quote comment=”329367″]Then again, the entire inside of the helmet appears to be gold.
Why spray the inside?

I’m thinking they might have been gold. Why not, it’s closer to the color of an actual lion than silver, that’s for sure.

—Ricko[/quote]

Riddell RT helmets were made of tenite plastic – which was painted on the inside like the later Macgregor/Kelley and Marietta/Maxpro helmets. The plastic yellowed very quickly; hell it might have been slightly yellow to begin with. Also, Riddell RT and RK helmets were made of 3 plastic parts, not a one-piece shell. There were two sides plus the center ridge. On the RTs, the center ridge was made of a different type of plastic and were painted on the outside (while the sides were tenite painted on the inside.

Even the 1960s-1980s clear shells had a slight tint to them – remember the Patriots white Macgregors from the early 70s had a slight blue tint to them. An even easier comparison would be the Cowboys Maxpros compared to their Riddells in the 70s – the Maxpros always looked more “silver” due to the shell and the finish on the inside

[quote comment=”329415″][quote comment=”329400″][quote comment=”329363″][quote comment=”329357″]btw,

wtf is UTZ?

I see it advertised in lots of stadiums, but, umm, WTF is it?[/quote]

 

edit: dammit stu!

link[/quote]

Mmm… Carolina Bar-B-Q is the TRUTH!!
link
WHY can’t I get a full-size bag in Pittsburgh?![/quote]
Not sure…Synders must have monopoly of anything larger than a snack pack!

if you’re ever an hour and a half east, stop in Johnstown. Their Giant Eagle stores have the full size bags.

Crab chip baby! (not knocking carolina BBQ because that’s good too!)[/quote]
It also helps when our neighbor’s uncle works for Utz and can get the crab chips at the Giant Eagle near us.